Trip to St. Louis

I'm taking my kid to college in St. Louis this Thursday. Any tips for:
1. A lunch spot about three or four hours out of Chicago on the way?
2. St. Louis dining tips?
3. How to cope with not having this wonderful kid around any more?

Thanks.

Jonah,

Lived in St. Louis twice. Really a great town. What fine institution of higher learning will your son be attending so I can give you recs in that area of town.

My older son will be heading out the door in two years. Don't know what I'll do when I don't have to say "turn it down!" anymore.

Kim

He'll be attending Washington University.

Around 3 - 4 hours out of Chicago, when you get to Springfield, a visit to The Cozy Dog Drive In would be a great lunch stop. Cozy Dog is the inventor of the Corn Dog (although they are referred to as Cozy Dogs at the Cozy Dog). Check out their website.

When you get closer to St. Louis, you have more Jack In The Boxes than you can shake a stick at...

Yeah, just east of St. Louis is Collinsville where the Cahokia mounds are located has the only Jack in the Box I ever see in Illinois. It is also where the only Waffle House in Illinois resides.

Waffle House
505 North Bluff Road
Collinsville, IL 62234
http://www.wafflehouse.com
618-344-6343

Jack-In-The-Box Restaurants
9502 Collinsville Road
Collinsville, IL 62234
618-344-7848

Jack in the Box
300 South Buchanan Street
Edwardsville, IL 62025
618-692-1414

I was surprised to see there are 14 Jack in the Boxes in Illinois, but they are all midstate with closest being Danville. Anyway, I go for the greasy tacos, sort of the Solly's butter burger of my youth.

I agree with Steve. I drive to St. Louis often for work (just close enough to avoid the airports and rental cars), and Cozy Dog is your best bet. Close to the exit ramp. I like the fresh-dipped dog, though the frankfurter itself is a little insipid. The fresh fried batter makes up for it. The fries are the real star for me. Burgers are pretty good too.

For me, fine dining in St. Louis begins and ends with Tony's downtown. Great steaks and top-notch house made pasta. The Italian places on The Hill are fine, and it's an interesting neighborhood, but definitely Italian-American. Last time I was there, and staying near Wash U., I stopped by Vietnam Star, I think it was, on Olive: a big, rambling Vietnamese roadhouse of sorts. Phaedrus, a St. Louis Chowhound whose opinions I trust, likes it too.

Jonah,

Great Chow area! Your son couldn't have landed in a better spot.

Cardwell's On The Plaza, 94 Plaza Frontenac - Even though it's located in a mall, it has a separate entrance and is really a destination spot in and of itself. The menu changes quite often depending on what's in season and what looks good at the market.

Remy's Wine Bar, 222 S. Bemiston, Clayton - Slick urban decor serving terrific Mediterranean food and wine flights. I always found that it was most fun to order some little plates to share and just take your time. The staff is most congenial.

Big Sky Cafe, 47 S. Old Orchard, Webster Groves - Yes, I know, this is a little out of your way, but not by much. Webster Groves is one of those older towns that actually has a downtown...and it's kept up with a lot of pride. The meals that I've had here have all been nothing short of outstanding
http://www.bigskycafe.net/BSC/bsc_main.html

Thai Cafe, 6170 Delmar, University City - It's Not Spoon Thai, Thai Aree, or whatever you use to compare all other Thai to, but it's darn good.

Saleem's, 6501 Delmar, UCity - Terrific Middle Eastern.

Another tip...IMHO, you can pretty much skip The Hill (the STL equivalent of Taylor St.). The places are all really expensive especially given that they're your basic Red Sauce joints that aren't even that good.

Hope you found this helpful. If you have any questions, I'd be more than happy to help. As far as dining en route, we always used to pick a Steak N' Shake and stop there.

You can also check out the dining guide in The Riverfront Times. Even for residents, it's truly valuable.
http://www.riverfronttimes.com/issues/c ... g_toc.html

Kim

Jeff,

When we lived in STL, most people were always a bit mystified by Tony's reputation. You'd hear one person rave about their experience, only to turn around and hear the next person talk about how it was so-so and not worth the money. The place really seemed to run hot and cold.

Just too many interesting places in neighborhoods like Soulard, the CWE or Clayton to try for us to be ever interested in going there.

Kim

Hi,

Classic roadfood stuff to be found in St. Louis:

Ted Drewes home of the Concrete, which is a milkshake type concoction which is so thick it is presented upside down and nothing moves.

Fried Ravioli - local lore suggests they were about to be raided and needed a quick meal. So rather than boil their ravioli, they were tossed into a deep fat fryer for speed. Served with marinara sauce for dipping.

Egg Foo Young Sandwiches, I cannot recall the local name, it is a chinese omelette with gravy between two pieces of wonder bread. A very regional speciality.

BBQ - In my old Stern Road Food, Good Food they recommended it. I have tried several places when I was there but they have since closed. I am sure there are others who can recommend something specific.

Cathy2 wrote:Fried Ravioli - local lore suggests they were about to be raided and needed a quick meal. So rather than boil their ravioli, they were tossed into a deep fat fryer for speed. Served with marinara sauce for dipping.

For what it's worth, I had fairly good 'toasted' (fried) ravioli at caponie's on Harlem in Chicago, as well.

The egg foo yung sandwich? Well, that's just wrong.

For what it's worth, I had fairly good 'toasted' (fried) ravioli at caponie's on Harlem in Chicago, as well.

Things do float around the country, but ST. Louis does claim to originate it there.

The egg foo yung sandwich? Well, that's just wrong.

I assume you mean wrong as the concept is objectionable. I had to try it to believe it was for real.

When I insisted on buying Wonder Bread the other day to accompany my BBQ, my Mom called back to double-check if I was for real. She said the last time she had Wonder Bread was when she ate spaghetti sandwiches, which was really Chef Boy Ar Dee (or however it is spelled). She also went through a rash of mustard sandwiches, until she developed an allergy.

Believe it or not, my favorite place to get barbecue used to be at my grocery store. I used to shop at a store called Dierberg's which I believe is the only grocery store chain in the country that is still exclusively family owned. What an amazing place! Inside there was a counter manned by the folks from Super Smoker Barbecue. They'd sell, ribs, chicken, pulled pork and sides to go. I always thought it was very good. On the weekends, they'd actually have a smoker or two sitting out in the parking lot to accommodate the demand. I used to hear lots of good things about Bandana's as well.

Always thought fried ravioli was kind of a strange thing. Most people just serve them as a snack with a bit of marinara to dip them in.

I never ran across the egg foo yung sandwich, but the Sterns know from whence they speak.

Kim

I think that a lot of complaints about Tony's had less to do with the service or the quality of the food which is generally outstanding as much as it was with the PRICE. St. Louisans tend to be less willing than those in Chicago to spend what it would cost to feed a small village on a single meal. Tony's is generally a place where people go when on the expense account or on a rare special occasion like an anniversary.

The reputation of THE HILL as "not very good" can be attributed to Riggazi's and Cunetto's, two establishments that are quantity over quality. I used to send people to Favazza's on Southwest St. but I have been very disappointed in the quality the last two trips to St. Louis. Most natives have a favorite "hole in the wall" place usually on the fringes that serves good food.

I would make recommendations but mine would be so dated as it has been over 10 years since I lived in the city and perhaps 14 years since I really spent most of the time in the city.

Most of the places that I found most interesting were a lot of corner pubs that served great steaks accompanied by mediocre wedges of iceburg. Real blue collar places that were always packed and will never be found on websites or tourist magazines.

OK, the egg foo young sandwich is called a "St. Paul Sandwich," and it joins Springfield style cashew chicken in the pantheon of dubious Missouri-Chinese specialties.

Tony's is a great restaurant by any objective standard, a point that I have debated several times with natives and a travelling New Yorker on the CH Midwest board. I tend to agree that St. Louisans sometimes write the place off as too expensive to ever be worthwhile. (Much like my home town Tampan's love-hate of Bern's). However, by Chicago standards I find it to be a serious bargain. A nice mix of the old fashioned and cutting edge with a good wine list, solid service and tasteful decor. I like it lots. I've had great steaks there, but more memorable have been *perfect* veal Milanesa with rucola, near-perfect osso buco, hand-made agnolotti, panserotti and tortellini in brodo as good as any stuffed pasta I've eaten in the US, really up there with our own Spiaggia, wonderful house made bresaola, etc. What can I say, I'm a sucker for the "Italian Steakhouse," and Tony's really does the Italian part of it in a way that it notches above any other place in that genre.

PS, I think there is a common misconception that St. Louis is a great BBQ town. In my experience, and many locals agree, it is not. That's not to say that there is not some fantastic BBQ nearby. Southern MO and IL are both dotted with fine shacks, including my old favorite 17th St. Bar & Grill in Murphysboro IL. But the city itself is no urban BBQ mecca, in contrast to, say, KC or Memphis. Other places where great cue is just down the road, but scarce in town, might include Charlotte, Dallas, Atlanta and Houston, for example.

A lot of the people in STL who had less than positive vibes about Tony's were not natives, but folks like ourselves who were from other parts of the country and had diverse dining experiences. Most St. Louisans that I met loved Tony's and understood why they were being charged what they were.

I agree on the barbecue thing. While I liked the stuff from Super Smoker's, I wouldn't put it up against what you find here in Chicago. I think people somehow try and lump it in with the Kansas City thing.

Kim

For those LTH'ers who were kind enough to provide suggestions:
1. Cozy Dog: A great place. Corn dogs will never be my favorite food, but the place was great fun, the fries were pretty good, and most of all, it was good not to have to eat at a chain restaurant.
2. Cardwells on the Plaza. Thanks to Kim, this was our farewell dinner with our son, and we had a wonderful evening.
3. Ted Drewes: This wasn't mentioned, but we couldn't not go to this legendary frozen custard stand. While perhaps not quite as good as Kopps, the custard was right out of the sluice and very good. I also liked the fact that this is a classic ice cream shack where you walk up and order at the window.
4. I miss my son. Last night we had our first dinner with four people instead of five at the table, everyone in their normal chairs, but with one empty.

Thanks.

hattyn wrote:The egg foo yung sandwich was featured in Sandwiches That You Will Like.It was on PBS either WTTW or WYCC.Holly of hollyeats was on it I believe.

That show called it the "St Paul" sandwich, a speciality of St Louis available at
several chinese spots supposedly. Apparently consists of egg foo young
on Wonder bread, with lettuce, tomato, mayo etc. The restaurant they got
it at was the "Kim Van" at 2609 Gravois Avenue.

BTW, the other St Louis sandwich they mentioned was the ear/snoots etc
BBQ sandwich, which they got at C&K BBQ.

c8w

Jonah,

I am so glad that you had an enjoyable evening at Cardwell's. I hope your son enjoys WashU. and STL. As I said we lived there twice and I really thought it was a great place. In the future hopefully you'll get to explore the ethnic places on Delmar Ave. as well as the neighborhood known as the Central West End.

Kim

Graduated from Wash U about 6 years ago. And to this day, I still miss the best burger I had ever had in my life at Blueberry Hill on Delmar. I hope this post isn't too late.

Sometimes, I ponder driving the trek across the state just for that burger.

We actually stopped in for a beer at Blueberry Hill at a time when we weren't hungry. Your post, however, will be duly considered when we visit for during parents' weekend in October. Wash U seems like a great place. My wife and I want to go in place of our son.

I was telling Mr. kwe about this whole discussion of STL restaurants and places to stop en route and he asked me if I mentioned the sushi place in Bloomington. While I have never eaten there, Mr. kwe has on quite a few occasions since he used to do business with several companies in that area. Apparently when Mitsubishi built their plant in Bloomington they brought with them a very talented sushi chef and built this restaurant for their executives. If you exit I-55 at Veteran's Parkway and go east 1-2 miles it is in a free standing building on the south side of the road. Can't be that many Japanese/sushi places in Bloomington.

Kim

Ive read about fried brain sandwiches in St. Louis.

The opening paragraph to Lycos.com Travel on St. Louis is the following:
When they're not boasting about their city and chiding tourists who call it "St. Louie," locals at the pubs along Route 66 merrily toast the Cardinals over tasty fried-brain sandwiches. It's a St. Louis thing.

Two places I believe serve the fried brain sandwiches are:
CAFE MANHATTAN
Dieckmeyer's

Anyone had one? And how was it?

I'm on the road again -- driving to StL on Wednesday, staying thru Saturday.
I'll try for Corn Dogs on the way down (if my driving companion is up for it -- or maybe regardless), and perhaps Tony's while in town (hey, it's on the company dime).

I didn't see a BBQ recommendation tho -- maybe I need to read this thread more carefully. I'll report later this week.

Joel,

I thought the discussion was on this particular thread, but I do remember there being some talk of barbecue in STL. However, I think the conclusion that was reached was that there really is no good (as in destination worthy) barbecue in STL and that people seem to assume that because it is in the same state as KC that it's sort of by proxy. Lots better places to eat while you're down there. Save your barbecue jones for when you return to Chicago.

If you really feel the need to have some barbecue while you're down there check out the link that I provided for the Riverfront Times. I always thought their dining section was most useful.

Kim

I asked my friend who lives in St. Louis about the best BBQ in St. Louis. Without a beat, he said drive 265 miles west to Kansas City.

There are a couple of chains that are decent but ... not really all that good.

There is one place on Gravois Rd. in Affton just south of the city that was decent BUT ... in eight years of living nearby, I was only there twice. That says it all, doesn't it??

A couple things to consider on the trip to St. Louis:

At least on the way, if not perhaps of the best timing, is Amanceer Tapatio of much Chowhound/LTH fame. It is WELL worth the detour.

Springfield is chock full of great chow, and the local speciality, the horseshoe is fun to eat.

Rob

A little late, but I've been to St. Louis often enough to want to give my 2 cents:

-It took awhile for this Chicago deep dish girl to get into it, but Imo's pizza is actually a nice break for a regional type of pizza. The provel cheese makes it.

-Mekong on South Grand has excellent Vietnamese, as well as a lounge/club upstairs. The owner, Tai, is usually there and very nice.

-Toasted ravioli... you can get it anywhere, and you pretty much can't go wrong, but it's nice to find a place that does a vegetarian one. Cicero's in U City (the Loop?) does some good ones.

-Of course, the St. Paul Sandwich. All's I gotta say is, don't knock it 'til you try it. You can go to any local hole in the wall "Chinamen's" (which is how the yokels refer to the establishments) and get a super tasty, deep fried, Egg Foo Young patty on white bread, with mayo, lettuce and tomato for under $2.00 (even for shrimp!). Excellent while drunk, or returning from an excursion to Pop's E. STL's 24-hour bar. Don't get it with the gravy, as that just makes it too soggy to eat happily. Enjoy the crunch.

Enjoy!

gmonkey,

While I am a card carrying member of the school of "Too Each His/Her Own", I always thought Imo's was dreadful and avoided it like the plague when I lived in STL. Quite honestly I don't think Provel is even real cheese but rather a "cheese food product". I believe that was how I saw it labeled in the grocery stores.

However, having grown up in Chicago I'm sure that carries with it a certain bias for what pizza should be like and taste like. St. Louisans are just way into Imo's. When we lived in Denver people held pizza to yet another set of standards, and of course there's New Yorkers. If we all liked the same thing, what fun would the world be?

Kim

I first encountered Provel cheese in Kansas City when a friend took me out for "the best Italian food in town". Needless to say, you should no more go to Kansas City for the Italian food than you should come to Chicago for the BBQ. (Although Lidia Bastianoich, owner of Felidia and Becco in NYC has a restaurant there that I have not tried). Intgerestingly enough, Imo's is mentioned in the definition of Provel cheese:

Provel cheese is a white cheese that is very popular in St. Louis, Missouri. It is made of a composite of cheeses, including cheddar and swiss. Provel cheese is very soft with a gooey and almost buttery texture. Provel's low melting point makes it the key ingredient in St. Louis style pizza, most notably Imo's Pizza. It is also common on salads and on chicken. While very popular in the St. Louis area, Provel cheese is almost unheard of elsewhere.