Whetstones, other tools for sharpening & maintaining knives?

Wow, what a rabbit hole this is! I've watched a bunch of highly entertaining and informative videos online in the past few days and have gone from knowing absolutely nothing to being overwhelmed with information (and still knowing very little).

I'm having trouble deciding which stones to buy. First, do I go with 'splash and go' (which are relatively pricey) or opt for more traditional stones, which require soaking before use but cost considerably less? Once I decide on that, how many stones and which grit levels? What about brands? There are so many options, it's almost paralyzing.

Right now I'm thinking 3 or 4 stones . . . 320 or 400, 1,000, 4,000 or 5,000 and maybe something in the neighborhood of 10,000. But even if that's a good plan, which to buy? All the same brand? Do different brands excel in certain areas?

And what about stone holders, sink bridges and strops? Are they even necessary? What makes some superior to others?

Any seasoned advice will be much appreciated.

Thanks,

=R=

Hi there! I really feel that the diamond stones are your best route, especially for a beginner to build up their repertoire. These are very low maintenance, quick setup, and a very long life. I am have always liked the ones from DMT (https://www.dmtsharp.com/). You can buy the little tool that attaches to your knife to get it at the right angle until you get the feel for it which can be handy for someone starting out.

Ronnie,

It is indeed a rabbit hole. I've been down this way for the last couple of years.

Let me echo the sentiments I've picked up at the forum associated with ChefKnivestoGo: start slow, figure out what you like, and add. (CKTG is a quality vendor run by excellent people and the people on the forum are really enthusiastic and helpful).

Mostly people suggest getting a 1000 grit stone and learning how to use it. Different formulas/manufacturers produce stones with different feels. Some people prefer the convenience of splash and go. That's what I would recommend if you want to avoid an extra hump that might keep you from sharpening (even having to add on 30-60 minutes for soaking can be enough to discourage some people). If you know that's you, then get a splash and go. Otherwise, the world's your oyster.

Stone holders are helpful but not necessary. I sharpen on a cafeteria tray with a lip (to catch excess water). The holder is nice because it raises the surface of the stone well above the lip. Depending on your set-up, it may or may not be necessary.

Before going all in, I'd probably get a 1000 stone and you can anchor it with a wet cloth. Set it in a half sheet pan or on a cookie sheet. Get a spray bottle. And that's about all you need for equipment to start.

See how you like it and then figure out what you might like to get next.

ronnie_suburban wrote:Wow, what a rabbit hole this is!

Ha, understatement of the month, maybe the year.

Over the years I've bought whetstones, oilstones, diamondstones, wood strops, leather strops, ceramic/steel/kryptonite rods, Sypderco Magic stones and the list goes on infinitum.

I've watched (countless videos of) Vincent from Korin Trading on YouTube, the dry as dust sharpening videos of Michael Christy free-hand sharpen to hair whittling (not a euphemism) sharpness and god knows what else.

Spent weeks wandering the forest pondering single, double, chisel, Japanese, German, French, Pluto grinds, steel types and the list goes on and on and on.

My advice, aside from drop the idea now while you still relitivly sane, is buy a few two-sides 8-inch stones from Korin.com, a stone fixer (flattens the surface of a sharpening stone) and a two-sided diamond stone. Also a strop and compound.

Practice on less expensive softer steel knives, practice some more. I tend to sit at the kitchen table sharpening on a damp towel with a spray bottle next to me.

Do NOT lose the address for Northwestern Cutlery if you are serious about keeping your knives sharp.

G Wiv wrote:

ronnie_suburban wrote:Wow, what a rabbit hole this is!

Ha, understatement of the month, maybe the year.

Do NOT lose the address for Northwestern Cutlery if you are serious about keeping your knives sharp.

I have been scared off several times and never even attempted. Was going to be a smart ass and just reply with two words, 'Northwestern Cutlery'.

At the forums I mentioned, they just started a discussion about what common questions to ask people to answer when they are looking for sharpening supplies to help guide them to the right products.

You can see the discussion here

Their current version of the questions for prospective customers:

1. Do you know how to sharpen or are you just learning?
2. what is your current sharpening strategy? Do you already have stones, steels, flattening plate?
3. How much were you thinking about spending?
5. Do you want splash and go stones or ones that require a soak?
6. Are you sharpening knives or tools or straight razors etc?
7. Do you know the types of steels you're sharpening (some stones do better cutting certain steels)?

I will tell you that it is really hard to properly sharpen knives with their curved surfaces.

I always sharpen my own chisels which are really easy with the proper guides. I finally gave up on knives and use Exact Blade in Northbrook for my knives.

I have a 800, 1200, 3000 and 8000. The 3000 is a diamond stone which I use to flatten the other stones. When I am done with my chisels, you can literally see yourself on their surface.

lougord99 wrote:Exact Blade in Northbrook for my knives.

The one time I used Exact Blade they, meaning the owner Dan, did a great job though it felt like I was cheating on Northwestern Cutlery

Northwestern Cutlery
810 W Lake St
Chicago, IL 60607-1704
(312) 421-3666

Exact Blade
813 Waukegan Rd
Northbrook, IL 60062
(847) 920-7349

Such great information - thanks to all, so far. Before I buy anything, I'm going to do some trial sharpening on my friend's stones and see how they feel. His set-up is mobile and he's going to bring it by next week. After that, hopefully I'll get a sense of what feels comfortable and what doesn't.

I fully realize that learning to sharpen my own knives is going to be more about the journey than the destination. And that's completely ok. I'm actually looking forward to it. This is a skill I'm excited to hone (boom!). And I've got plenty of older, mainstream production knives to learn on. They're hardly heirlooms and will make excellent whetstone fodder. If I ever get to the point where I'm confident that I know what I'm doing, I'll try my hand on some of my more prized blades.

=R=

I have no reason to comment on this, since I have never attempted to sharpen my own knives. Have sharpened chisels and plane blades, but that's another ball game.

I have figured out the hard way in my old age, some things may be better left to professionals, which is why I said this seems way to complicated for me to do well and do not ruin my knives. To get really good at some things in life, it may require lots of experience and constant repetition. I chalked this up as one of them.

Also finally came to grips with the fact I should save myself lots of time, money, and aggravation and when I want great espresso, just get it out. After I reading several times that repetition and experience is very important in pulling great shots, I said I'm out.

Al Ehrhardt wrote:I have no reason to comment on this, since I have never attempted to sharpen my own knives. Have sharpened chisels and plane blades, but that's another ball game.

I have figured out the hard way in my old age, some things may be better left to professionals, which is why I said this seems way to complicated for me to do well and do not ruin my knives. To get really good at some things in life, it may require lots of experience and constant repetition. I chalked this up as one of them.

Also finally came to grips with the fact I should save myself lots of time, money, and aggravation and when I want great espresso, just get it out. After I reading several times that repetition and experience is very important in pulling great shots, I said I'm out.

I totally get it, Al. Clearly, this is going to be one of those minute-to-learn, lifetime-to-master skills and I'm ok with that. As I said, I have plenty of easily replaceable knives that I'm willing to put at risk. That said, I've watched video of many, many people sharpening knives and it's not rocket science. I'm confident in my ability to emulate them, cultivate my own abilities, learn from my mistakes and make a reasonable go of it. Worst case, I mess up a couple of Henckels kitchen knives -- which I can then take somewhere for repair.

=R=

Yup. I'm glad this discussion is here. I can understand why this seems like it might be hard to learn. But I can only tell you that even with meager skills, you can still make things sharper. And you'd have to do something extreme to "ruin" your knives. You might add cosmetic scratches and if you want to sharpen yourself, you probably should just be OK with that. But even these seem relatively minor (and you can take out insurance against these by using things like painter's tape above the edge).

I no longer use tape on my knives. Maybe I'm better at holding an angle, but I also just don't care that much.

Inevitably, there will be better sharpeners. It gives me some level of satisfaction that I can restore a blade to good performance on my own. And it's a totally accessible skill for anyone who can hold a knife fairly steady and wants to give it a shot.

gastro gnome wrote:Yup. I'm glad this discussion is here. I can understand why this seems like it might be hard to learn. But I can only tell you that even with meager skills, you can still make things sharper. And you'd have to do something extreme to "ruin" your knives. You might add cosmetic scratches and if you want to sharpen yourself, you probably should just be OK with that. But even these seem relatively minor (and you can take out insurance against these by using things like painter's tape above the edge).

I no longer use tape on my knives. Maybe I'm better at holding an angle, but I also just don't care that much.

Inevitably, there will be better sharpeners. It gives me some level of satisfaction that I can restore a blade to good performance on my own. And it's a totally accessible skill for anyone who can hold a knife fairly steady and wants to give it a shot.

I totally agree with you. For me, good kitchen knives ( as far as I was able to get ) are not good enough. I want great kitchen knives, for which I go to the professionals.

ronnie_suburban wrote:

Al Ehrhardt wrote:I have no reason to comment on this, since I have never attempted to sharpen my own knives. Have sharpened chisels and plane blades, but that's another ball game.

I have figured out the hard way in my old age, some things may be better left to professionals, which is why I said this seems way to complicated for me to do well and do not ruin my knives. To get really good at some things in life, it may require lots of experience and constant repetition. I chalked this up as one of them.

Also finally came to grips with the fact I should save myself lots of time, money, and aggravation and when I want great espresso, just get it out. After I reading several times that repetition and experience is very important in pulling great shots, I said I'm out.

I totally get it, Al. Clearly, this is going to be one of those minute-to-learn, lifetime-to-master skills and I'm ok with that. As I said, I have plenty of easily replaceable knives that I'm willing to put at risk. That said, I've watched video of many, many people sharpening knives and it's not rocket science. I'm confident in my ability to emulate them, cultivate my own abilities, learn from my mistakes and make a reasonable go of it. Worst case, I mess up a couple of Henckels kitchen knives -- which I can then take somewhere for repair.

=R=

I think that is the fun part about learning this craft, in general knives are fairly resilient and even with mistakes you can pretty much always correct them and your knife back to where it needs to be. I think it personalizes the relationship between the knife wielder and the knife. Some of the videos out there of masters taking knifes that just look rusted into oblivion and getting them looking brand new are really amazing to watch.

While I'm probably better at stone sharpening than I imply, but nowhere near as good as I'd like, I religiously steel my knives before every use. If you watch any good butcher or competent prep cook they swipe 5-6 times before every new task. Steeling realigns the knife edge, refreshes the edge so to speak, and contributes to ease of task and keeping your knife sharper longer.

That depends on the steel Gary. That's true for typical Western-style, stainless steel knives. Higher-hardness knives (like 61 or 62 and up) like most Japanese blades have steel that isn't as flexible. The edges don't really roll like lower hardness knives and won't benefit from steeling. You are more likely to chip them than improve the edge.

But your typical Wusthof, Henckels, big box store knife, absolutely. Steel away.

gastro gnome wrote:Higher-hardness knives (like 61 or 62 and up) like most Japanese blades have steel that isn't as flexible. The edges don't really roll like lower hardness knives and won't benefit from steeling.

Somewhat of a generalization. I mostly use carbon steel Japanese knives, such as Misono, reground to 36-38% all inclusive and they benefit from a couple of swipes on each side.

G Wiv wrote:

gastro gnome wrote:Higher-hardness knives (like 61 or 62 and up) like most Japanese blades have steel that isn't as flexible. The edges don't really roll like lower hardness knives and won't benefit from steeling.

Somewhat of a generalization. I mostly use carbon steel Japanese knives, such as Misono, reground to 40% all inclusive and they benefit from a couple of swipes on each side.

I think this is what makes this discussion so fascinating but also so complex and at times, so difficult to navigate. There are so many informed opinions out there and they don't all line up. Check out what Bob Kramer has to say about honing, especially around the 3-minute mark of this video . . .


Bob Kramer on honing / Sur La Table promotional video

=R=

Digging deeper and deeper now . . . the videos by Ryky Tran on the Burrfection channel at youtube are super informative and highly entertaining.

=R=

Here's a post on Hack-a-Day* about building an adjustable frame for your whetstone that will keep your knife at the right angle, using a 3D printer, a couple aluminum rods and a few bolts.

Don't have a 3D printer? Odds are your library does.
https://hackaday.com/2019/06/02/3d-prin ... -job-easy/

* don't worry about this site getting you on watchlists: this is the classic use of hack, a clever solution, rather than the password crackers and system penetration stuff.

G Wiv wrote: the dry as dust sharpening videos of Michael Christy

Michael Christy just posted a new video on Supergold2 and V-Toku2 performance and edge retention. I started to watch, blinked, next thing I knew it was 8-hours later and I woke from the best sleep I've had in a year.

Further down the knife/pocket knife rabbit hole, way the f* further, Nick Shabazz, who is fun and informative to view, just posted a new knife maintenance and disassembly tools video. 28-minutes of I can't believe I found it interesting and don't live in my parents basement eating hot-pockets and playing video games.

I have a few of the items he recommends, from previous videos, most notably the Wiha micro-bit driver set that covers a multitude of drivers, and nano oil.

G Wiv wrote:

G Wiv wrote: the dry as dust sharpening videos of Michael Christy

Michael Christy just posted a new video on Supergold2 and V-Toku2 performance and edge retention. I started to watch, blinked, next thing I knew it was 8-hours later and I woke from the best sleep I've had in a year.

LOL - that's hysterical! I happened upon that video and also watched it before bed last night. It doesn't get any more boring than that . . . and yet, I watched the entire thing and actually learned a bit, too. Perhaps it's his underlying creepiness that kept me tuned in. Something about him makes me feel that he could go off at any minute.

=R=

In advance of my big trial sharpening session later this week, I managed to get my hands on a friend's Kramer by Zwilling Water Stone Sharpening Set and put it -- and myself -- to the test on two knives -- a Kershaw Leek Pocket Knife and a Henckels Twin 4-Star, 6" Utility Knife. In both cases, I was able sharpen the blades back to the point where they easily cut through sheets of 20-pound paper held up with one hand.

Are they factory-level sharp? LOL, not a chance but the blades appear unmarred to the naked eye and they cut better than they have in a long time. I think I'm going to like this new hobby.

=R=

G Wiv wrote:Further down the knife/pocket knife rabbit hole, way the f* further, Nick Shabazz, who is fun and informative to view, just posted a new knife maintenance and disassembly tools video. 28-minutes of I can't believe I found it interesting and don't live in my parents basement eating hot-pockets and playing video games.

As someone who loves gear, this particular video was right up my alley. Beyond that, I think I've developed a bit of a man-crush on Nick Shabazz!

=R=

Knife sharpening is like many other pursuits in that there is a pretty reasonable time and money investment that will get you 80% functionality, and everything on top of that is more for the dedicated hobbyists.

For my working knives, I just use a blue oxide stone from Joong Boo that cost about $15. Splash water on it, anchor it with a wet dishcloth, set the angle with your finger tip and give it 10 swipes per side. Smooth out the burr with a light backwards drag and you're good to go. I have a finer Japanese stone that was given to me as a present but I hardly use it - seems more suited for pricier knives where you are concerned with maintaining the polish.

ronnie_suburban wrote:

G Wiv wrote:Further down the knife/pocket knife rabbit hole, way the f* further, Nick Shabazz, who is fun and informative to view, just posted a new knife maintenance and disassembly tools video. 28-minutes of I can't believe I found it interesting and don't live in my parents basement eating hot-pockets and playing video games.

As someone who loves gear, this particular video was right up my alley. Beyond that, I think I've developed a bit of a man-crush on Nick Shabazz!

=R=

Just stopping back to say that the IFixIt tool kit Nick Shabazz recommends in the video linked above by Gary is spectacularly useful. Since receiving it a few hours ago, I've already disassembled and performed maintenance on a couple of EDC Folders (that's lingo for Every Day Carry Folding Pocket Knives ) and changed the positioning of a couple of carry clips on those knives. Just a really fun set of tools to have.

=R=

Ronnie, The mat is handy, helps keep all the little screws from ending up on the floor. Blue loctite and a couple of the watch spring bar tools plus . . .

Also, importantly, blue or white pill.
Rabbit hole indeed.

G Wiv wrote:Ronnie, The mat is handy, helps keep all the little screws from ending up on the floor. Blue loctite and a couple of the watch spring bar tools plus . . .

Also, importantly, blue or white pill.
Rabbit hole indeed.

LOL, yes indeed. I ended up purchasing this mat for about $13 . . .


13.8" x 9.8" Disassembly Mat
Because my eyesight is so bad in low light, I thought the light blue would be easier to work on than something darker. It works like a charm. And I love all the little compartments. There are a couple at the top that are magnetized, which will likely end up being convenient at times.

I do want to be careful with the various oils, greases and solvents that are often recommended for knife and blade maintenance. Many of them are not food-safe, which make sense since a lot of people who are into EDC knives don't use them for food. I, on the other hand, use mine often for food.

=R=

I've been practicing my sharpening and not only is it a satisfying activity, I'm very encouraged by the results. I now have three very sharp EDC folders.

I persuaded a friend to dig up a few dull kitchen knives for me to practice with. I think I did a pretty good job with them. Two of the three (Henckels stainless paring, Sabatier stainless carver) easily passed the newspaper cut test. The third (Henckels stainless chef) is clearly much sharper than it was when I received it but it caught a bit on the paper. I just have to keep practicing.

Anyway, sharpening is a fascinating activity. If the knowledge is a room, I'm still on the outside with my hand on the knob . . . but at least the door's unlocked now.

=R=

A sharp knife is a happy knife. #lowslowbbq #countmeafan #homecooking