Geo wrote:Recently, he recommended a Japanese bread knife as better than the Victorinox bread knife, so I ordered it. It is *simply amazing*!

And that is?

Perhaps Geo was referring to this article?

http://www.seriouseats.com/2016/08/best ... eview.html

mamagotcha wrote:Perhaps Geo was referring to this article?

Thanks, yes, perhaps, I saw that as well. Though that was written by Daniel Gritzer not Kenji and I was hoping Geo would kindly clarify.

Sorry Gary, my bad: I didn't look at the author--I subscribe to the "Serious Eats" daily, and just assumed that, since it was a lab report, it was from Kenji.
In any case, I bought the knife--the Tojiro serrated--and just love it. I'd been using the Victorinox bread for a couple of years, and it's good enough, better than most, but like all the other serrated blades I've ever used, it pulled directionally: it was very difficult to slice straight up and down. This new knife simply glides through the bread loaf, baguette, etc. like through butter, and in a completely effortless straight, straight line. And it comes in a beautiful mailing box. : ) For $26 it simply can't be beat.

Geo

Nice, Gary! I love carbon steel, but I really don't think I'm disciplined enough to invest in a serious chef's carbon steel knife. It'd be all stained and grotty waaaay too soon.

But, knife freak that I am, I just bought another. Typical story: I've been watching all the Jacques Pépin shows on Create, and I was struck by a lovely little knife he was using, seemed to be something like a largish paring or a short utility knife. After watching long enough I finally got a good look at it: it's a Pal knife, and looking at their lineup, it appeared to be the 5" professional paring knife. Went to Amazon, found it, and bought it for $68. Turns out to be a lovely little knife, of a good handy size. Only fault is that it's lowest energy state is resting on the handle back, edge up. Not a good feature in a knife. Otherwise, I totally recommend it.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000N5FDQI/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Geo

Geo wrote:It'd be all stained and grotty waaaay too soon.

Geo,

Patina not stain, a sign that a knife has been well used and cared for, adds character. Never put away wet, something you should not do with any knife, and you will avoid rust spots.

The link in your post goes to a MAC 5-inch paring for $59.99, cursory google does not turn up any Pal kitchen style knives paring or otherwise.

Love watching Jacques Pépin, its like a master class in all aspects of cookery.

By the way, pictured knife, Misono carbon steel 8.2-inch chef knife, is $119. The 8.2-inch carbon steel knifes do not have the dragon etching, which I do not find appealing.

Korin typically has a twice a year knife sale where they discount 20% and also offer discounts to culinary professionals.
http://korin.com/HMI-SCGY-210?sc=27&category=280077

Regards,
Gary

Tnx for the info, Gary. And the link to Korin. I'll keep a watch on them.

The knife I linked is the knife I bought, and the one that Jacques P. used on the show. But, oddly enough, the price has changed since I bought it--I checked my order and I got it for $66 (not $68, as I wrongly remembered); it now is apparently $59. As I noted it's sort of midway between paring and utility in size.

It's very sad to hear the intro to "Jacques Pépin Heart and Soul" that "this is his last series," where I take "last" to mean "final."

Geo

"It's very sad to hear the intro to "Jacques Pépin Heart and Soul" that "this is his last series," where I take "last" to mean "final."

Jacques Pepin is THE most important culinary infleuence in my cooking. From the purchase of the two volume set of the 'Art of Cooking' in the 1980's when I found them in used book stores to now. Not only does Jacques have recipes, but techniques in pictures. His other master tomes followed.
On TV, he is to me, the 'Mister Rogers' of cooking!
I listen just to hear his calm demeanor and even if he screws something up, he still has a positive comment.
His comments about saving all the vegetable peelings for stock are from his childhood during WW2 and after where things were tough and his mother had a restaurant.-Richard

Getting back to Carbon Steel knives, meet "Finger Slayer," a 12" Dexter Russell knife no longer manufactured. Purchased in 1974, she holds an edge like crazy, and is my go to knife. We use her 10" sister at home, and unfortunately, the 8" sibling died many years ago.

Gary, Evil,

Do either of you know of a source which has a range of carbon steel knives? You've got me interested now... (BTW, I switched to carbon steel skillets about a year ago and could not be happier in the new regime. Lovely stuff!)

Geo

I glanced at Gary's link above and noticed the knife's description included the offer of a left-handed option. I'd never heard of such a thing. Being left-handed, and buying my knives handedness-agnostically for years, am I missing out on a better slicing/dicing/cutting experience? Or does it make basically no difference?

The issue with knives and handedness is this: some knives are sharpened to an even 50/50 bevel where the blade is symmetrical. In this case, the knife should work with someone using either hand. Most mass market knives are sharpened this way.

Some Japanese knives are instead sharpened to a different angle (usually a 70/30 bevel for chef's knives). I've seen various explanations as to why and none of them are particularly satisfying (the knife itself is asymmetrical, it's easier to sharpen and maintain an asymmetrical edge because we all have dominant hands, it makes for quicker/easier cuts for those with a dominant hand).

I think most knives are asymmetrical edges are geared towards right-handed people because....well...there are more of them.

It's annoying for me as a lefty. Some manufacturers make the knives the other way but they are more expensive.

Geo wrote:Do either of you know of a source which has a range of carbon steel knives?

Now that I'm thinking about knives it was Evil Ronnie who introduced me to Misono maybe a dozen years ago, terrific knives. Thanks Evil!

http://korin.com/site/home.html has a wide range of traditional Japanese and western knives. Most brands have multiple types of steel with Wide ranges of prices.

Also, importantly, don't misinterpret my comments about Misono, carbon steel etc as in any way suggesting the MAC knives are not good quality. I have two myself, an SD65 which is a medium heavy cleaver in the shape of a Santoku and one other I don't remember at the moment.

Regards,
Gary

Hi,

I saw these today when I dropped off my knives for a tune up at NW Cutlery and took a few pics of recommendations from the guy who takes care of my tools:




This appears to be a collaboration between Bob Kramer and Henkel.



Mucho dinero I'm sure. Both are carbon steel.

Meh . . . Kramer's name used to mean something. Not anymore, imo.

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ronnie_suburban wrote:Meh . . . Kramer's name used to mean something. Not anymore, imo.

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I had that feeling. Like endorsing Wheatie's.

http://www.dexter1818.com/shop/traditional.html

Evil Ronnie wrote:

ronnie_suburban wrote:Meh . . . Kramer's name used to mean something. Not anymore, imo.

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I had that feeling. Like endorsing Wheatie's.

http://www.dexter1818.com/shop/traditional.html

Or when Bayless briefly endorsed Burger King. It's a shame but for the indiscriminate, I'm guessing they're super pricey.

I think a lot of you pros know -- and this thread bears it out repeatedly -- that you don't necessarily need to spend top dollar to get an excellent knife. But you do need to know what your preferences and priorities are before you plunk down.

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ronnie_suburban wrote:Meh . . . Kramer's name used to mean something. Not anymore, imo.

Few years ago Sur La Table was demoing the Kramer/Zwilling 8-inch carbon steel chef knife collaboration, I even cut a few carrots with it, $299 is better spent elsewhere.

G Wiv wrote:

ronnie_suburban wrote:Meh . . . Kramer's name used to mean something. Not anymore, imo.

Few years ago Sur La Table was demoing the Kramer/Zwilling 8-inch carbon steel chef knife collaboration, I even cut a few carrots with it, $299 is better spent elsewhere.

At "The Admiral Theatre?"

I bought the 8" Misen knife for only $65 at https://www.misen.co/ and think it's one of the best knives I've ever used. Wicked sharp (15° Blade Angles, so I'm not chopping up chicken bones with this) and takes an edge quickly. It was a Kickstarter project. Well-reviewed by Kenji over at Serious Eats and many others...

Any updates on how the Misen knife is holding up? I found this rather unflattering review (albeit from an unlikely source) and wanted to contrast it with real life usage.

https://www.wired.com/2016/10/review-misen-chefs-knife/

Thanks!

marmiton wrote:Any updates on how the Misen knife is holding up? I found this rather unflattering review (albeit from an unlikely source) and wanted to contrast it with real life usage.

https://www.wired.com/2016/10/review-misen-chefs-knife/

Thanks!

I've been using mine quite a bit since it arrived and have had no problems.

Coogles wrote:

marmiton wrote:Any updates on how the Misen knife is holding up? I found this rather unflattering review (albeit from an unlikely source) and wanted to contrast it with real life usage.

https://www.wired.com/2016/10/review-misen-chefs-knife/

Thanks!

I've been using mine quite a bit since it arrived and have had no problems.

I saw that review, but I've use mine a couple of times and I've been very impressed. In particular, I was slicing onions and was impressed how the knife went through the onions so easily and allowed me to get beautifully translucent slices.

I'm enjoying my Misen so far. My favorite knife before this was the Fibrox, so I don't have an expensive knife to compare. The biggest difference for me has been the weight of the knife, which drives the cutting more than the force my hand has to provide with the older, lighter knife. I use it multiple times a day, with a quick sharpening, and haven't noticed any dulling yet. No buyer's remorse from this direction.

Hi everyone,
For years I've gone through the catch 22 of buying a set of cheap chef's knives, only to have them go blunt.. then sharpening them, but then they only stay sharp for one meal's chopping..! So I buy a new set, and it starts again!

What are the "best" knives to buy? Currently I have some Viners knives, I don't know if they're meant to be good or not.. but they have serrated edges so I'm not even sure if I can sharpen them, if you know what I mean...

I see chefs on the TV effortlessly chopping through onions, chicken etc and I want to know how!! I wouldn't mind splashing out on an expensive set if they'll last me a good few years without sharpening them all the time...

Thanks

First, all knives dull and then you must sharpen.
There are services that do this for you if you want.
Second, there are different styles and manufactures depending on how you cut.
Two main categories are Japanese, thin carbon steel laminates in most cases for very fine cutting. Usually a hexagonal handle.
Western Chef style blades, moer and more a rust resistant hi-Carbon steel but carbon steel is still available. Carbon steel will rust if not coated with a preservative and HiCarbon more slowly. Usually Stainless steel will not rust, keeps an edge a long time but hard to sharpen for mortals, usually cheaper knives.
For Western style my personal favorite is Wusthof, the largest range of any manufacture.
There are different lines within Wusthof from low to higher priced starting with stamped no bolster knives ranging to forged bolster knives. you get what you pay for.
http://www.wusthof.com/
Dexster-Russel makes a Sani-Safe line which are a good value of which I have a few.
https://www.dexter1818.com/shop/sani-safe.html
For Japanese style the best is Hamono Takeda.These are forged composite blades and the best of their type. One of the sharpest blades in the world Takeda can be found at Knife shows diligently sharpening his blades by hand on water stones. Not for an amateur as they can really bite but the cut is fantastic.
http://takedahamono.com/eshop/hocho.html
Anything more expensive is truly custom and prices are high.
Hope this helps and stay away from any TV advertised knives.
Lastly, many consider themselves experts.
So determine your style and budget and what type of blades you require, and get yourself to a Shop like Northwestern cutlery that has a good selection of knives.-Richard

budrichard wrote:Lastly, many consider themselves experts.
So determine your style and budget and what type of blades you require, and get yourself to a Shop like Northwestern cutlery that has a good selection of knives.-Richard

Sage advice and, to be sure, I am no expert, I know what I like and that is subject to change.
I penned the missive below for a friend in 2015, I've since sent it to a few others who found it useful. I'd add Misen if I made a current list, mentioned more than once in this thread. Also, they did not live in Chicago, Northwestern Cutlery is a brick & mortar gem which you should explore.
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Gary Wiviott Knife recommendations, 2015

I don't recommend one specific brand and I certainly do not recommend a knife block set. Buy the knives below from Amazon and you will have an all-around set that fills every basic need and will last a lifetime. Knife blocks of one brand are a waste of money as you get the wrong lengths and knives you simply do not need.

Paring knife:
Wusthof Classic 3 1/2 inch ($40)
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00005MEGH/?ta ... ippilot-20

Bread knife:
Wusthof 10 inch ($120)
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00009YBA9/?ta ... ippilot-20

Chef knife/Gyuto:
Misono 8 inch
Both of these are terrific, the less expensive one is carbon steel, which I prefer, but will rust without proper care.
Misono Swedish Carbon Steel ($118)
http://www.amazon.com/Misono-Swedish-Ca ... chef+knife
Misono UX10 ($181) considered one of the best available.
http://www.amazon.com/Misono-UX10-Gyuto ... chef+knife

Chef knife, inexpensive:
Victorinox Swiss Army Fibrox Pro 8" Chef's Knife
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B008M5U1C2/?t ... ippilot-20

Slicing/Carving:
Victorinox 12 inch Graton Edge Slicing Knife ($50)
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0000CFDB9/?ta ... ippilot-20

Boning Knife:
Victroinox Fibrox 6 inch ($20)
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000QCNJ3C/?ta ... ippilot-20
or
J. A. Henckels International Classic 5.5 inch ($42)
http://www.amazon.com/Henckels-Internat ... ning+knife

Kitchen Shears:
Kershaw ($50)
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0002IMMEW/?ta ... ippilot-20
or
J.A Henckels ($16)
http://www.amazon.com/J-A-HENCKELS-INTE ... hen+shears

Knife Block:
Bodum Bistro ($45)
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B003NG8B0E/?ta ... ippilot-20

Buy all of these not just one or two. For under $500 they total less than most sets with no waste and will function/fit every kitchen task wonderfully.

Gary Wiviott 2015

Good advice, good choices, Gary. And, as noted, Misen is now a good recommendation, especially their utility knife: great balance, perfect length, long-lasting edge.

As far a bread knives are concerned, I think that the Tojiro is quite simply the best ever.

https://www.amazon.com/Tojiro-Bread-Slicer-235mm-F-737/dp/B001TPA816/ref=sr_1_1?crid=2SSM4507LCTFZ&keywords=tojiro+bread+knife&qid=1561823096&s=gateway&sprefix=tojiro%2Caps%2C155&sr=8-1

Geo

I don't often use the LTH space to point people to other discussion forums but ever since gastro gnome turned me onto the forums at chefknivestogo.com, I've become much more informed about all aspects of knives. My strong recommendation is that if you have any interest in blades, you visit that site and spend some time reading the information-rich threads there because doing so will greatly expand your universe.

There are many extraordinarily informed folks there who generously share their knowledge. It's completely fascinating and amazingly informative. You'll come away with a wealth of new knowledge and even if, after that, you don't know exactly what you want, you'll know what questions to ask to help you figure it out. I cannot recommend it highly enough.

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