Cathy,

I didn't comment earlier because I have never reached such an extended brine with brisket so I lack personal knowledge, but the primary concern I would have with such a long brine is the potential for a mushy texture. I've certainly experienced this with poultry - I just don't know when it comes into play with brisket. For pastrami/corned beef, I've never gone beyond 6 days (although I've done as few as 3 with success - and injecting) . . . and I always use an injector to ensure that I reach all internal areas of the brisket.

BR wrote:Cathy,

I didn't comment earlier because I have never reached such an extended brine with brisket so I lack personal knowledge, but the primary concern I would have with such a long brine is the potential for a mushy texture. I've certainly experienced this with poultry - I just don't know when it comes into play with brisket. For pastrami/corned beef, I've never gone beyond 6 days (although I've done as few as 3 with success - and injecting) . . . and I always use an injector to ensure that I reach all internal areas of the brisket.

BR,

Somewhere I have an injector, but where?

extramsg was one who brought up stabbing the meat. I didn't use a knife. I have a springloaded meat tenderizer with four-needle tips at time, 1930's relic I put to good use. I also have a long trussing needle for the very thick parts.

I believe we both agree a 12-day brine is asking for trouble.

Regards,

We do a twelve-day brine for Montréal Smoked Meat. No mush at all. I think brisket is bulletproof.

Geo

For the Devil of Horseback sandwich described above, my son made CB from Alton Brown's recipe which calls for saltpeter (potassium nitrate.) Alton hasn't let us down yet, so he went to the Inter4net and found it easily. Soaked the brisket for 10 days, then boiled for about three hours. It is excellent.

I have a two and a half pound corned beef I am goingi to cook. It was going to be for two people but now I want to invite my friend and her dh and I am hoping it will feed four. The internet says a quarter to a half pound per person. They are light eaters. I am hoping it will do. It shrinks so darn much.

toria wrote: The internet says a quarter to a half pound per person.

Do you believe everything that you read on the internet?

toria wrote:They are light eaters. I am hoping it will do. It shrinks so darn much.

The problem with CB brisket is that we make it very infrequently, and we have a tendency to gorge ourselves on it when we do make it. A 2.5 lb'er will probably yield less than 1.5 lbs finished weight---Your guests better be light eaters. No harm no foul by making a second one and enjoying the leftovers ( if any ).

Hmm that is true. Looks like I will have to make another trip to the store. No I do not believe everything I read on the internet that is why I like to check back here.

toria wrote:... A little more than an hour before it was time to eat (like an hour and fifteen min.) I turned up the pot to simmer (this crock pot can be turned up and made hotter) and I put in the carrots, some halved baby bliss red potatoes and then the cabbage in quarters and cooked the whole thing for an hour more so the vegetables would be done. Very delicious and tender, perfectly cooked vegetables.

Thanks! That's what I was looking for. An hour for the vegetables.

I have two briskets about 3 1/2 lb. I've got one soaking in water that will go on the smoker in the morning, hopefully to come out tasting as G Wiv's looks. The other will go in a crock pot with carrots, potatoes and cabbage. As someone stated early in the thread:

BuddyRoadhouse wrote:I apply the same rules to the corned beef that I use for cooking my 'Que: The only time I boil my ribs is if I'm trying to make rib soup. Do I want the flavor to end up in the meat or in the water I cooked it in? For me that's an easy answer.
...
Buddy

That's exactly why I want to do it - to provide some flavor for the vegetables. Somehow the thought of the vegetables boiled by themselves sounds a little plain. Some brisket should pep them up nicely.

Geo wrote:We do a twelve-day brine for Montréal Smoked Meat. No mush at all. I think brisket is bulletproof.

Geo

Isn't this a dry rub brine rather than submerged in water?

If someone does a wet brine and reports back on their experience, that would be interesting.

Regards,

Hi,

I bought a five-pound corned beef point cut from Jewel for $1.99 a pound last week. If it said on the package I missed it, this was a low salt brine. After a five hour simmer, I removed the meat.

I brought the cooking liquid to a boil and added salt. I then added the carrots and potatoes, about 10 minutes later I added the cabbage. Maybe 10-15 minutes once I saw the cabbage was cooked, I pulled the vegetables for serving.

Since this is so low salt anyway, I may buy another to make pastrami. Frequently when you make pastrami from commercially corned meat, you need a few days of soaking in water to desalinate. Since it is already less salty than expected, I can go straight to adding crushed coriander and cracked pepper, then smoke, steam and serve.

Regards,

Hi C2--

No, Schwartz's uses a wet rub/brining. We've talked to them about it, and also there's a video which we've watched. Can't find it at the moment, sorry.
But a group of us has been working on this for a couple of yrs and the 12day brining is now our standard. Pink salt included, of course.

Geo

I also bought the corned beef from Jewel. It came in a bag with the pickling spices in a packet. I think it said it was tenderized with papaya on the bag. I put it in a plastic container with the juices, added the pickling spices, some beer, and some orange juice. Tomorrow I will put it in the crock pot with the juices and with some onions to cook for the afternoon. The vegetables will go in the last hour.

P.S. for anybody cooking the vegetables in a crock pot on low, they might take more than an hour to cook. My pot can be adjusted to a higher temperature to simmer so they will get done in an hour.

Cathy2 wrote:

Geo wrote:We do a twelve-day brine for Montréal Smoked Meat. No mush at all. I think brisket is bulletproof.

Geo

Isn't this a dry rub brine rather than submerged in water?

If someone does a wet brine and reports back on their experience, that would be interesting.

Regards,

Well, I just finished serving my guest a brisket brined for twelve days (using Ruhlman's recipe, which calls for a five day brine). No mushiness to speak of, in fact, my friends thought it was some of the best corned beef they've ever eaten, Thanks to everyone for their advice, I've been a longtime lurker on this site, glad I finally stepped up to the plate.

Welcome aboard Hamshark and thanks for telling us about the results - excellent information to have for those of us who make corned beef and pastrami.

I plan on removing the corned beef from the crockpot and wrapping it in foil with a little juice and putting it in a warming oven and then cooking the vegetables in the pot. I do not know if I have enough room for the vegetables and the beef too. I guess they will steam maybe I will have to see. I am also thinking of mixing up mustard and brown sugar to provide a glaze for the top of the beef.

Hamshank - thanks for reporting back on your experience. I hope you found us gentle, if not speculative and curious, spirits!

Geo - I am going to have to try making some Montreal corned beef ... once I get past this week's multiple meals devoted to the Irish and corned beef.

Got up to cook corned beef #2 at 6:45 am this morning. What I thought would be a high simmer turned into a low boil while I slept away. A 4.5 pound corned beef was pretty much finished by 9:30 am. I turned it down to a low simmer for an hour while I went out to buy potatoes. I let it rest in a warm oven uncovered while I cooked the vegetables. It was perfectly fine for brunch at 11:00 am this morning. I left my BIL lots of corned beef, while my veg sister ate mushrooms on toast.

Happy St. Patrick's Day!

Regards,

Sounds good C2. My corned beefs were a big success. Marinated for a day with pickling spices and beer. Then put them in the crock pot to simmer for hours with the brine but added a small bottle of orange juice. The orange adds another flavor dimension and acts as a tenderizer and you do not taste blatant orange. I also added bay leaf and onions chopped. I did not know if the cheap a@@ corned beefs from Jewel would be any good but they were. I made a glaze of mustards, brown sugar, vinegar and mayo and pulled the corned beefs out an hour before eating and wrapped them in foil with the glaze to hold at 250 degrees. Strained the broth and put in the cabbage, carrots and potatoes. The meat was fork tender. We had broccoli salad, beer bread and caramel graham bars for dessert. My friend who is half Irish was happy.

What about non corned beef brisket? Is there a thread for that? I really love the meat in brisket and want to try my hand at that. In my family we have no tradition of eating non corned beef brisket but it sounds good.

My mom was appalled that she was served CB and the veggies had all been cooked separately (basically just boiled in water). I said I thought that it was not uncommon, she said everyone she spoke to (the other 3 ladies at her table) had never heard of such a thing. Is this usual, not uncommon, rare or never done?

leek wrote:My mom was appalled that she was served CB and the veggies had all been cooked separately (basically just boiled in water). I said I thought that it was not uncommon, she said everyone she spoke to (the other 3 ladies at her table) had never heard of such a thing. Is this usual, not uncommon, rare or never done?

Hi,

The vegetables cooked in the corned beef cooking water is expected at my house. In fact, these vegetables are so popular, I make far more than I normally do. Once the meat is gone, boiled cabbage with a horseradish-sour cream sauce is still quite popular.

Regards,

I recently read an interesting article about cooking corned beef. One thing it talked about was the high amount of connective tissue in this meat; that might be how it can survive brining that would otherwise reduce poultry to jello. The other thing that it mentioned was the huge amount of shrinkage of this particular cut... over 50%!

Chouxfly smoked two commercially brined 4.8 lb briskets for our dinner (a recipe mentioned elsewhere on this forum as "fauxstrami"); one was entirely devoured by six hungry adults and two kids, the other was sliced for sandwiches (and two lucky guests were allowed to take a few precious morsels home with them). The smoked cabbage — not so much of a success. I decided to do smashed potatoes on the side, along with a traditional Irish soda bread (with caraway seeds), Guinness, and a Guinness/chocolate ice cream (full disclosure: we wanted to make sure we had enough of the real thing for guests to drink, so I wound up using a bottle of Lagunitas' Wilco Tango Foxtrot for the dessert. I also had to use a bar of Scharffenberger milk chocolate that had nibs in it, turned out great!).

toria wrote:What about non corned beef brisket? Is there a thread for that? I really love the meat in brisket and want to try my hand at that. In my family we have no tradition of eating non corned beef brisket but it sounds good.

Here is an old thread:
viewtopic.php?f=16&t=17116

Personally, I found the Cook's Illustrated brisket recipe to be delicious.

I do mine in the slow cooker. 1 pound of carrots, 1 head of cabbage cut into wedges, 1 four-plus pound corned beef, three cups water. Turn on LOW 8-10 hours. Bada bing.

Thanks for the link. Yes there is a huge amount of shrinkage. I have had success in the crock pot method too. I do not use plain water but a combo of beer, orange juice and a bit of water, onions and some bay leaves with the pickling spices. My family too expects the vegetables to be cooked in the corned beef cooking water for flavor. The problem is keeping them from becoming mush and having enough room for the vegetables....as Cathy says they are quite popular and we make quite a bit. So remove the corned beef and put a nice mustard sugar glaze on it, wrap it in foil and put in a warming oven at 250 while the vegetables cook in the same pot. I did have to skim the pot of what I call pink scum with a strainer before putting the veggies in. The meat was fall apart tender. Corned beef requires a long cooking time. I disagree that it does not. Its a very tough cut of meat if not properly cooked low and slow.

Hi,

Shrinkage can be reduced considerably by keeping a lower temperature. This is a working muscle where heat causes it to contract, thus the shrinkage. If I recall correctly, if you can keep the cooking temperature under 190 degrees, you will significantly reduce shrinkage. Cook's Illustrated had a very nice article discussing this related to brisket or perhaps corned beef.

Yesterdays cook was in a smaller pot than I use at home. After I pulled the corned beef, I cooked the carrots and potatoes. When they were done, they joined the corned beef keeping warm in the oven. I cooked half the cabbage, which was once it was done went to a serving platter. The remaining cabbage cooked while we had lunch. None of the vegetables were overcooked.

Regards,

For me, Reuben Sandwiches and or Corned Beef Hash on March 18th is almost as traditional as Corned Beef and Cabbage on the 17th. It's also the tastier of the two days. Made these with a homemade Russian dressing according to Zingerman's in Ann Arbor I found online. Just make sure you layer your sandwich properly so it has that perfect balance*


Get the pan nice and hot so the bread can toast nicely...

*Spread tablespoon of dressing on one piece of bread and top with slice of Swiss, some sauerkraut and all the corned beef. Spread another tbsp of dressing over the meat and top that with more sauerkraut and another slice of cheese (in that order). Spread another tbsp of dressing on the other piece of bread and place it on top of the cheese. Press firmly to close the sandwich. Add sliced butter to one side of the sandwich and cook. Add butter to the other side when flipping.


Damn Near Perfect

Looks good. We had left overs and then packed up a few more containers with the broth and then froze. But honestly we did not have much meat left over. I will have to investigate the slower cooking temps next year. But the brisket was so tender. The broth too had a lot of flavor we did not eat it like soup but it gives good flavor to the cooking of the vegetables.

On the boiled vs. roasted question, I come down on both sides. I like the moistness of boiled corned beef and I like the finish to the top of the oven roasted corned beef. A couple of weekends ago, I tried cooking one in a Romertopf clay pot. This method may allow you to get a bit of the best from both worlds. The clay pot kept the corned beef moister than a simple roast, but for the last half hour or so, I took the top off and got some carmelization. When I took the top off, I glazed the corned beef with a mixture of Polish mustard, brown sugar and OJ. I was very pleased with the way that worked out.

I soaked the meat in water overnight and cooked it for about 2 1/2 hours at 425. I think you generally need to cook at a higher temp when using a clay pot. Next time I think I will soak for two days, crank the oven down a bit and leave it in the oven longer. This method may be an alternative to consider

The corned beef imperative just overtook me. I am going to get out to get one and throw it in some boiling water for a long, long time. Its time for spring.

I recommend the Sy Ginsburg brand cb being sold at Costco currently. We've had two of them and I just bought a third one yesterday. Really, really excellent corned beef.