World of Beer Evanston - setting the bar high, and crashing

This is not a review of a place on its first official day in operation (last Tuesday). It’s simply a re-telling of my experience visiting a new local bar on its first official day of operation – one that claims a high level of knowledge and appreciation for the local scene. I’m sure there are plenty of kinks that need to be worked out, and I’m hopeful that many of them will be addressed over time.

From their website, they set the bar relatively high:
“We take our commitment to provide you with a friendly and knowledgeable staff very seriously. All of our staff goes through a rigorous training process known as “Beer School” , in order to confidently provide you with the best beer to fit your tastes, it is imperative that we know everything there is to know about beer in order to serve you best.”

I asked if they had any beers from some of the newer Chicago breweries. The server didn’t know, but she sought out their “product manager” – purportedly the guy most in touch with the local beer scene.

“Do you carry any of the beers from Spiteful, or Begyle?”

“What? Never heard of them.”

“Well, they’re both breweries less than ten miles from here. How about Pipeworks?”

“Yeah, I think I’ve heard of them.”

Apparently, that’s their idea of “we know everything there is to know about beer in order to serve you best.” And even though, as they say, “WOB Culture is about being a part of the neighborhood” they aren’t aware of breweries within a few miles of their neighborhood.

[An aside – I’ve had Spiteful Brewing’s GFY Imperial Stout. It’s an excellent example of the style, and impressive for a brewery’s first release. The brewers have made it clear that GFY doesn’t stand for “Good For You.” A friend suggested it might stand for “Great F*****g Year.” I think he was close, but I may have now figured out what GFY really stands for. Let’s just say the Spiteful guys have appropriately named their brewery, and their attitude is well described as GFY.]

Back to World of Beer. I suppose it’s not surprising that many staff members weren’t familiar with the local beer scene, given that so many employees Tuesday night were people from Florida (the home of the chain) and other World of Beer locations. They said they were here only temporarily, to get the place going.

When I asked about so many of the local beers they didn’t carry: “Some beers are only available to individual bars, they’re not available to franchisees.” I’ll admit I’ve never read through all the minutiae of the Illinois Liquor laws, but this is the first time I’ve heard that there may be a distinction between independents and chains in terms of which can receive what product.

I asked about some of the beer menu descriptions. The menu makes a point of where each brew is from. Except, it describes Goose Island’s Honkers Ale, which is farmed out to a brewery in Portsmouth, NH, as an Illinois beer. Also an “Illinois” beer is Goose’s 312 – brewed in Baldwinsville, NY. (Goose has shipped out a number of their simpler beers to be made in other breweries, so it can focus on its more specialized and premium beers at the Chicago Fulton Street facility.) The explanation for this discrepancy I got from my server was “It doesn’t matter where they’re brewed, it’s where the offices are located. It’d be too hard to know where they’re all really brewed.”

I thought to myself, if that’s the standard, shouldn’t Goose Island’s stuff be identified as coming from Missouri, since that’s where their parent company, Anheuser Busch, is located? Or maybe it should be identified as coming from Belgium, since that’s where AB’s parent, AB InBev, is from? I didn’t push the issue. Sharon was already becoming annoyed with me for asking so many questions.

Their current featured beer is Goose Island Winter Mild – described as being in the “unique” beer style category, lumping it in with a lot of other brews, including the hard root beer from Small Town Brewery. Me, I’d describe the style of Goose Island Winter Mild as, oh, I dunno, maybe a Mild?

I asked how many of the staff had Ciccerone/Beer Server certification. I’m not sure our server knew what the Ciccerone program is (it’s basically the beer equivalent of wine sommelier certification.). But another server overheard, and came by. He said, “Oh, corporate takes care of that for us.” That’s kind of like saying “Our high school principal takes care of our ACT scores for us; we don’t have to do anything.” If anything, it’s probably news to Ray Daniels, who runs the Ciccerone program.

Since we’d been to the St. James Gate Guinness brewery in Dublin last year, Sharon asked for a Guinness. In Dublin, Guinness places a lot of emphasis on what they call “The Perfect Pour.” It’s a technique that enhances the experience of drinking Guinness, by showcasing the lacing in the glass as the foam settles, and yields the optimum aroma from the beer. Optionally, it’s also fun to see the shamrock design in the head, from the final part of the pour. Tommy Nevin’s and Celtic Knot, two Irish pubs within a few blocks of World of Beer do a good job with this pour.

After we mentioned to our server that we’d been to the Dublin brewery, she didn’t try to pour the Guinness herself; instead, she called over one of the managers from Florida to dispense the beer. This manager kept her back to us as she poured the beer, but it didn’t sufficiently obscure our vision that we couldn’t see what she was doing. Instead of starting the pour with the glass at a 45° angle to the tap, she poured it straight down the center of the glass. After the glass was about 1/3 full, she stopped and let it settle for about a minute. Then she repeated the process for the next 1/3 of the glass, waited, and then topped off the glass. No lacing. Not even an attempt at a shamrock.

I suppose it shouldn’t be a big deal, except from a place that claims “we know everything there is to know about beer in order to serve you best.”

Then there was the competition they had on Facebook. “The below CAN sign goes to the first fan to tell me which Chicago Brewery was the first to package their scrumptious brews in a can?” Maybe it was fixed. They gave the award to someone who guessed Half Acre. I pointed out that, according to Bob Skilnik in his highly authoritative book “Beer — A History Brewing in Chicago,” Best Brewing Company, on the South Side, was one of the first breweries in the country to receive an experimental canning line that was being developed by the American Can Company. That was in 1935, and as such, Best Brewing was the first Chicago brewery to put their beers in cans. The World of Beer folks didn’t care about getting it right.

I’m not saying you can’t have a good time, or a few good pints, at World of Beer; to the contrary, for someone whose beer experience is limited to Miller and Bud products, it offers an opportunity to expand horizons. Their beer selection, especially in bottles, is impressive (although Yardhouse in Glenview has more than twice as many beers on tap.) All of the employees were very nice, and many of the servers do truly try to be helpful, even if their knowledge level doesn’t even begin to approach the corporate standard of “we know everything there is to know about beer.” To achieve that goal, which they set for themselves, will take a lot more effort than they’ve put in to date.

World of Beer - Evanston
1601 Sherman Ave.
(on the corner of Sherman, Davis and Orrington)
Evanston, IL 60201

editedfor typos

Hi- I drove past there about 9:00 last night, and it looked like they were doing tons of business. Do they have much food?

BTW- There was an article in the Sun Times last week about the small bar on Main street called the Alcove, that has been mentioned here before. Everybody that they interviewed for the article said that they loved the place.

I've been to the WOB in Naperville, they had no food. Just beer. I assume the Evanston location is the same.

The OP is really, really nit-picky and quite frankly hard to read, IMO.

Coffee drinkers don't judge their stops by the designs the baristas can draw in the top of their foamy lattes, yet a lot of that post is spent on the missing shamrock in the glass of Guinness. In no way does it enhance the taste of the glass of beer and this is not a big money, fine dining establishment where "presentation" would be crucial. It's a glass of beer that I can get at TGIFridays. That person went to a specialty beer place with a hundred types of beer and ordered a Guinness.

And yes, every bar I've been to lists a "Goose Island" as being from Chicago. You know, where the actual original brewery is located on the actual geographic feature under the same name. Goose Island Beer is from Chicago, corporate buyouts be damned.

There are literally hundreds of thousands of breweries in the world....and there is no one person that knows of all of them, local or not. The fact that the first server that the OP dealt with hasn't heard of the newest breweries in Chicago is not surprising (I'm an avid beer drinker/consumer/fan...I've never heard of any of the examples the OP listed). WOB has a very, very wide selection of great beers - import, domestic craft, etc. That's what they advertise to be, and that is what they are. If you are beer fan, you will have no problem finding plenty of brews you like there.

That being said.....my two concerns about the place are
1). It's tough for a place that is trying to sell beer, and a lot of it, to not sell any real food. It's hard to sit and sample many kinds of beer without food.

2). A lot of the "popular" beers they offer can be found at other places. They should focus on beers that can't be found at other suburban places. Just my opinion, maybe not a popular business model.

Virtually no food. We were able to get a large pretzel, and I believe the menu has one or two other items. The menu mentions that food can be delivered in from Giordano's pizza (which the WOB franchise owner also owns), and the staff mentioned that anyone can bring in their own food if they want.

I'm a big fan of The Alcove. Check this thread.

spanky wrote:There are literally hundreds of thousands of breweries in the world.

Actually, if you consider only formally licensed breweries, there were only 9,107 breweries in the world as of 2011. A few hundred have been added since then, but nowhere near "hundreds of thousands."

I appreciate your account very much, Tom. These guys basically seem like corporate, bandwagon-jumping carpet-baggers. Maybe it'll improve over time but your initial impressions speak to issues that likely have nothing to do with how recently they opened. I just get the sense that WOB is targeted at casual beer fans, and probably not at those who are obsessed with beer, or experts on it. Too bad. While that probably makes more sense financially, it also makes the entire concept a lot less appealing.

Just looking at their website made me sad. Nothing there suggests anything other than an unexciting, watered-down, lowest-common-denominator experience. I'm actually surprised they have any locations that aren't in shopping malls.

Less grandiose, local places like Fountainhead, Bad Apple, Map Room and Local Option (to name a few) seem to have no problem getting their hands on interesting, local brews, even those from some of our newest brewers. Bigger isn't always better, especially when it comes to beer.

=R=

nr706 wrote:I pointed out that, according to Bob Skilnik in his highly authoritative book “Beer — A History Brewing in Chicago,” Best Brewing Company, on the South Side, was one of the first breweries in the country to receive an experimental canning line that was being developed by the American Can Company. That was in 1935, and as such, Best Brewing was the first Chicago brewery to put their beers in cans.

Interesting tidbit. I knew Best canned a seemingly infinite number of brands but didn't realize what pioneers they were. But wasn't Best Brewery (at least the one that started canning in the mid '30s) on the North Side? It still is, only now it's an apartment building, on Fletcher a block east of Southport.

I agree with several of the criticisms voiced above. Perhaps most telling is the fact that I'm a beer-loving college student, and I'll go to Prairie Moon over WOB 6 days out of the week.

Spanky, nr706 may seem nit-picky, but he has certainly earned my respect as a beer expert, both as a drinker and a brewer. A place that claims the title of "World of Beer" and bases their business around extravagant claims of expertise and knowledge, should at least make a minimal pretense at actually having that expertise, or hire a few people who do. This place does not even begin to approach the level of the Map Room, where the bartenders really are as knowledgable as WOB claims their staff is. If WOB expects to be taken seriously in Chicago's beer scene (which I just don't see happening), it should be able to stand up to Tom's minimal scrutiny. You cannot simply claim to be experts in a field without having even a rudimentary understanding of the subject or the local brewing scene. If they had not made such grandiose claims, I am sure Tom would have been easier on them (though I had never heard of Spiteful brewery either, but I never claimed to know "everything" about beer). I hate to think of what some of Chicago's real beer snobs will do to them. Their charade might fly in Boca Raton, but it won't fool people here. I doubt it will even fool most Northwestern students.

As far as the Guiness pour goes, it is an essential part of serving Guiness and something that the company places a lot of emphasis on. They will even outfit bars with nitrogen taps to ensure a properly served product. For many years it has been possible to get a properly poured Guiness or half and half at any number of places that make no claims to any extrordinary knowledge or abilities. Chicago takes its Irish pubs seriously. It seems like this bartending skill would be a no-brainer for a place that calls itself World Of Beer (even if our Guiness is "imported" from Canada). Tom's remark about the shamrock was meant to be sarcastic. I am sure he didn'texpect a shamrock on his Guiness, but holding the glass at the proper angle is an essential and elementary skill in beer pouring. The fact that the staff deferred to their "expert", who did not even know how to properly position a glass under a tap, speaks volumes.

I was hoping WOB might be tolerable, being so close to home. I thought that I could maybe ignore the corporate franchise baggage because of the selection. It doesn't sound like I will be going there soon. WOB seems like the Chipotle of brew, except Chipotle actually does serve locally brewed ales from 5 Rabbits. As Ron pointed out, there are plenty of local pubs with smaller selections, but at least a marginal interest in, and knowledge of, what they are serving. Things have really improved over the last few years. I remember when I was ecstatic to find out my neighborhood watering hole started serving Alpha King on tap. Now I can get many local brews at many of the local pubs.

To be honest, I don't buy the whole Guinness two-stage pour crap (if that is part of what we're talking about. Angle of glass I'll give you, but that goes for any beer.) It just ends up with me waiting longer to get my beer. I've tried two-stage pours and one-stage pours side-by-side and I can't tell any difference whatsoever. My understanding is the two-stage pour came from when they drew the beer from two different taps: one containing fresh beer, and one containing an older, slightly soured beer.

We ate lunch at the Freedom Drive Naperville location of Naf Naf and I noticed a WOB across the parking lot. No interest on my part but at least there are plenty of places to eat within a few steps.

Pipeworks (at North and Western in Chicago), which is within 10 miles of the Evanston WOB location, the WOB that claims to know its neighborhood, and also claims to know "everything" about beer," and of which their locally-focused beer guy said “Yeah, I think I’ve heard of them," but they don't carry their beer, was named today as the Best New Brewery in the World by Ratebeer.com. Nice job of keeping up with the times, guys.

I'll admit it. As much as I thought I enjoy and like beer, I had never heard of Pipeworks (or Spiteful or Bergyle) until this thread. (It's becoming more and more difficult keeping up with the brewing scene--I think 5 Rabbit is the last local brewery I've come across.) It looks like my beer store carries it. Is there a particular beer I should try, or just any of them?

nr706 wrote:Pipeworks, which is within 10 miles of the Evanston WOB location, and which claims to know their neighborhood, and claims to know "everything" about beer," of which their locally focused beer guy said “Yeah, I think I’ve heard of them," but they don't carry their beer, was named today as the Best New Brewery in the World by Ratebeer.com. Nice job of keeping up with the times, guys.

Don't believe everything you read....
And quite picking on the corporate beer swillers/ bandwagon jumpers (think of them as kind of "special needs")

Binko wrote:I'll admit it. As much as I thought I enjoy and like beer, I had never heard of Pipeworks (or Spiteful or Bergyle) until this thread. (It's becoming more and more difficult keeping up with the brewing scene--I think 5 Rabbit is the last local brewery I've come across.) It looks like my beer store carries it. Is there a particular beer I should try, or just any of them?

There's an excellent interview with Beejay from Pipeworks here. Ninja vs. Unicorn - a double IPA - seems to be becoming their signature brew. If you're not a hophead, you might like Ca$h 4 Golden Ale, or anything in the Poivre series (saisons brewed with peppers).

And, yes, some people have speculated that Stone Brewing's signature beer is especially appropriate for me, and Flying Dog Brewing's largest seller applies to Sharon (although I strenuously disagree with the latter).

From their website, they set the bar relatively high:
“We take our commitment to provide you with a friendly and knowledgeable staff very seriously. All of our staff goes through a rigorous training process known as “Beer School” , in order to confidently provide you with the best beer to fit your tastes, it is imperative that we know everything there is to know about beer in order to serve you best.”

Applebee's also claims to have great wings, Chili's sings a song about serving delicious Baby Back ribs, Outback calls themselves a steakhouse, and Domino's claims to have great pizza....while I appreciate, and agree, with OP - I wouldn't have expected a large suburban chain to be anything other than what you found.

That being said, I wouldn't go into Dominos and criticize their pizza and be angry to find they don't make the sauce onsite, or make their own dough...it's a chain/franchise business model, and those type of businesses never have the attention to detail or personal touches that smaller, owner-operated places have.

I just got an email from an old friend who went to the one in Naperville. Talk about damning with faint praise "yes, a lot of mis-identified beers. Quantity over quality. Great place to ask to go to for a date when you know the guy is going to turn out to be a dud because it is too loud there to hold any sort of conversation. Don't bother going in".

Another friend said that the Bavarian Lodge was not that much further away and she said it was far better. Having not been to either, and with two thumbs down on WOB, I know which I would choose.

rubbbqco wrote:

From their website, they set the bar relatively high:
“We take our commitment to provide you with a friendly and knowledgeable staff very seriously. All of our staff goes through a rigorous training process known as “Beer School” , in order to confidently provide you with the best beer to fit your tastes, it is imperative that we know everything there is to know about beer in order to serve you best.”

Applebee's also claims to have great wings, Chili's sings a song about serving delicious Baby Back ribs, Outback calls themselves a steakhouse, and Domino's claims to have great pizza....while I appreciate, and agree, with OP - I wouldn't have expected a large suburban chain to be anything other than what you found.

That being said, I wouldn't go into Dominos and criticize their pizza and be angry to find they don't make the sauce onsite, or make their own dough...it's a chain/franchise business model, and those type of businesses never have the attention to detail or personal touches that smaller, owner-operated places have.

It's a bit different with a place that touts its vast, superior knowledge about products that they simply carry, and don't actually make themselves. No one expects outstanding food at a major chain. But I think the expectations here, especially given their bold proclamations about being in touch with the local scene, are slightly different. That's all I'm sayin'.

=R=

Regardless of what a website says, I would never expect anything special from a chain like "world of beer". When i visit their website, and notice they aggressively sell franchises, I immediately lower my expectations. Not saying you never could have a good experience at a chain, I just wouldn't expect one. Subway and dominos make a lot of claims on their websites too, about offering the best food with the freshest ingredients..."if it's a chain, I refrain"


Sent from my iPh

rubbbqco wrote:"if it's a chain, I refrain"

I like it!

=R=

I love my formative hometown of Tampa like a ne'er do well cousin. Probably the "most Floridian" of Florida cities in the way Chicago is the "most American" of American cities, which many would say isn't anything to brag about. Tampa has a dark underside. Not strip clubs, the Mob, and Death Metal so much as its place as the great incubator of chain restaurants.

When I read the stuff above, and having never heard of the place, I immediately surmised WOB was spawn of the Outback/Beef O' Brady's/Hooter's/Carraba's mind. In Florida, and Tampa especially, guys in office parks near the airport go to places like NY and Chicago for work and come back with ideas based on things that they observe "white people like" but do not exist in Florida -- or indeed most of the USA outside the cosmopolitan centers and sophisticated pockets of civilization typically depicted in blue on political maps.

Good beer, and more so, good beer selections, are almost wholly absent in Florida aside from a number of British ex-pat pubs on the beaches and one or two solid brewers (most especially the great Cigar City Brewing, founded by the scion of Tampa's skin king and 1st Amendment crusader, Joe Redner, but that's a different story). So WOB was a "no-brainer." Once up and running, these franchises eventually reach the very places housing the same "authentic" or "genuine" spots the corporate groups determined to ape and market. Like Buca di Beppos and PF Changs in San Francisco or Chicago, WOB is blissfully unaware of, or at least unconcerned with, the irony, as will be 99% of its suburban customers. There's a range here, and I hope that WOB is closer to, say, Chipotle in Pilsen than Panda Express in Chinatown.

And, not to be entirely negative, WOB is a good thing for most of its markets where the choices had been among types of Bud and maybe a Sam's or Killian's. I might even drop in if they have any Cigar City stuff -- distributed only in FL and NYC last time I checked.

JeffB wrote:I might even drop in if they have any Cigar City stuff -- distributed only in FL and NYC last time I checked.

Hell, I'd drive to Naperville (and beyond) for that!

=R=

While I mostly agree with others on this thread, I do stop by the WOB in Naperville from time to time. Sometimes when I feel like a shawarma from Naf Naf, I have the choice of sitting in the sterile surroundings of Naf Naf Naperville, or I can take my sandwich over to WOB, sit in the sterile surroundings, and enjoy a Bells Third Coast Old Ale or New Holland Dragons Milk with my dinner. To me, the choice is obvious.

(Whether beers like this pair well with shawarma is a totally different topic of conversation. )

nr706 wrote:
“Do you carry any of the beers from Spiteful, or Bergyle?”

editedfor typos

The name of the second brewery is actually Begyle (BEE-gyle), not Bergyle. Just in case anyone ends up trying to search for the brewery in the future.

Who's the beer expert now, baby?

Maybe I had one more Flannel Pajama than I needed when I wrote that.

nr706 wrote:Pipeworks (at North and Western in Chicago), which is within 10 miles of the Evanston WOB location, the WOB that claims to know its neighborhood, and also claims to know "everything" about beer," and of which their locally-focused beer guy said “Yeah, I think I’ve heard of them," but they don't carry their beer, was named today as the Best New Brewery in the World by Ratebeer.com. Nice job of keeping up with the times, guys.

No defending WOB here but, as I understand it, Pipeworks and (I believe) Spiteful both self-distribute (literally driving beer around in a van themselves) making it pretty unlikely a chain like WOB would be able to obtain their beer (even if they've heard of it) because it wouldn't be on their list of suppliers/distributors.

nr706 wrote:

Binko wrote:I'll admit it. As much as I thought I enjoy and like beer, I had never heard of Pipeworks (or Spiteful or Bergyle) until this thread. (It's becoming more and more difficult keeping up with the brewing scene--I think 5 Rabbit is the last local brewery I've come across.) It looks like my beer store carries it. Is there a particular beer I should try, or just any of them?

There's an excellent interview with Beejay from Pipeworks here. Ninja vs. Unicorn - a double IPA - seems to be becoming their signature brew. If you're not a hophead, you might like Ca$h 4 Golden Ale, or anything in the Poivre series (saisons brewed with peppers).

Thanks. I just picked up a bomber of Galaxy Unicorn. I'm not sure I like the wheat in the malt there (I was wondering what the odd taste for an IIPA was, then I read the label), but the hops are lovely in this. I could just do without the wheat. It reminds me slightly of Three Floyd's Dreadnaught, but not quite as "full" and with a wheat component.

timmx wrote:No defending WOB here but, as I understand it, Pipeworks and (I believe) Spiteful both self-distribute (literally driving beer around in a van themselves) making it pretty unlikely a chain like WOB would be able to obtain their beer (even if they've heard of it) because it wouldn't be on their list of suppliers/distributors.

Most, if not all, of the new small breweries self-distribute - it just makes more economic sense. Once they get to a certain size, they must go through a distributor. WOB could call up Spiteful, Pipeworks, etc. and get their beer, if they wanted to, and if they knew those breweries exist. WOB does carry Small Town Brewery's stuff, which is self-distributed.

When you're in Leesburg, FL, and the only bar in town that stays open past 10 p.m. offers a choice between Bud, Bud Light, Busch and Rolling Rock, believe me, a 40-minute drive to the World of Beer in Clermont is not a bad idea!

That being said, the disappointments with WOB being expressed here are also true at The Beer Market in Vernon Hills. It isn't a chain - yet - although I believe it aspires to be. The Beer Market might have a slight credibility edge over WOB, however, as I have seen beers from Small Town Brewery and Tighthead there.

Speaking as a retailer who carries Pipeworks, I don't think it's as simple as just calling them up and asking for product. As mentioned above, they self distribute, and their accounts are hand picked. They will not send their beer to an account that can't agree to reasonable pricing (and their suggested retails still offer a generous margin). They don't fill many kegs, only about one sixtel from each 7 bbl batch, I've been told. I don't know if they have any on-premise accounts for bottles, but you'd probably be looking at $15-20 bombers at WOB. You can't compare Pipeworks to Small Town, really. Small Town may self-distribute, but they're draft only. Two different business models.

That being said, I had an hour to kill in Evanston the other night and decided to check out WOB. I'd seen their opening night taplist and while there were some pleasant surprises, it didn't appear to be well thought out. Why have both Delirium Tremens and Chimay Cinq Cents on draft? Inside, it met my expectations for their targeting - basically an upscale sports bar with a decent beer selection. Aside from presentation - both beers were served in uninspired shaker pints - my major issues with WOB boil down to pricing. Draft prices, while not unreasonable, are on the high side for the area, without the presentation or service I'd expect from a true beer bar. Pour sizes are not indicated anywhere on the menu. Consequently, I passed on some otherwise appealing options - a $7 pint of Breakfast Stout is a good deal; the same price for an 8-10oz pour, not so much. But the thing that put me over the edge when I got my tab was this: draft prices do not include tax, and nowhere on the menu is this spelled out. Suddenly that $6 pint of Metropolitan Iron Works is closer to $7. I can't recall ever going to a bar that pulled this. Evanston could really use another quality beer destination. Too bad a license was wasted on this place.