I've got a bottle. Now I'm afraid to drink it!

teatpuller wrote:I've got a bottle. Now I'm afraid to drink it!

Me too!

got my at Binny's for around $50
picked it up almost a week ago and have yet to crack it..

Called Binny's in Elmwood Park this morning, they set aside a bottle for me, and I picked it up this morning. Dunno how many bottles they have, but it was $48.

teatpuller wrote:I've got a bottle. Now I'm afraid to drink it!

I opened mine the day I bought it
I figure what the hell - I bought it to drink, not look at.

Chef Achatz posts on Twitter - "the Aviary offering a flight of Old Rip Van Winkle. 10, 12, 13, 15, 20, 23 year old. If you like corn, barley malt and wheat in your glass.."

Snagged what I was told was the last bottle of PVW 15 at Binny's in River Grove earlier today. Over the course of my search for it, I also stumbled upon a couple bottles of Hirsch 16, so I'm very happy with the overall results.

=R=

Jayz wrote:Chef Achatz posts on Twitter - "the Aviary offering a flight of Old Rip Van Winkle. 10, 12, 13, 15, 20, 23 year old. If you like corn, barley malt and wheat in your glass.."

♫ One of these things is not like the others... ♫

I wonder if the rye is going to stick out like a sore thumb...given that all of the others are wheated, it's bound to make for an interesting contrast.

Finally found some PVW-15. It's everything you guys have said about it, and then some. I'd don't think I'd ever be tempted to use this in a mixed drink.

This whole thread is like discussing a mutual beloved friend with late-stage cancer. We're all just trying to savor what we might have left.

jsagoff wrote:This whole thread is like discussing a mutual beloved friend with late-stage cancer. We're all just trying to savor what we might have left.

What's the deal with the closed Stitzel-Weller distillery? Can't ORVW make this stuff at another distillery? As long as they use their own formula of ingredients and techniques, wouldn't it be basically the same product? Obviously, I don't understand the nuances of this issue. Are you guys saying that PVW-15 is about to become extinct?

I could be way off base here, but when I took a trip through Scotland a few years back and visited a number of distilleries, every single one was adamant about not taking pictures of the still itself. The shape/size of the still can play as much a role in the whisky as the water, malt bill, yeast strain and length of time spent aging. As such, the specific dimensions and measurements of the still tend to be kept secret. Again, I don't know if A. I'm even correct about stills in Scotland or B. the same would apply to stills in Bourbon County. It might come down to more than the formula, ingredients and techniques but the physical still itself. And if that's gone now...

The odd thing is that if this particular still is the Holy Grail for so many people, why would they close it?

Cogito wrote:

jsagoff wrote:This whole thread is like discussing a mutual beloved friend with late-stage cancer. We're all just trying to savor what we might have left.

What's the deal with the closed Stitzel-Weller distillery? Can't ORVW make this stuff at another distillery? As long as they use their own formula of ingredients and techniques, wouldn't it be basically the same product? Obviously, I don't understand the nuances of this issue. Are you guys saying that PVW-15 is about to become extinct?

Although I've never had PVW, I couldn't help wasting 10 minutes digging around for more information about this. The PVW website isn't very helpful, but their Facebookpage seems to indicate that the 15 year is now made (but not yet released) at the Buffalo Trace distillery. They are still releasing the stuff from the SW distillery. But I could be wrong - I'm sort of reading between the lines.

Cogito wrote:

jsagoff wrote:This whole thread is like discussing a mutual beloved friend with late-stage cancer. We're all just trying to savor what we might have left.

Are you guys saying that PVW-15 is about to become extinct?

Yes, this fall will likely be the last time it appears on store shelves. Production of Van Winkle recipes has moved to Buffalo Trace, but there are so many variables in the bourbon making process that it would be unreasonable to assume the result will be anything quite like what came out of Stitzel-Weller. The bottles containing non-Stitzel-Weller whiskey will certainly be sold under a different name.

As danimalarkey mentions, the still itself is of incredible importance. One of the reasons often sited for the tremendous respect given to Parker Beam, Master Distiller at Heaven Hill, is the fact that he was able to recover from the fire that destroyed their distillery in 1996 and produce what are arguably the same bourbons on a different still. That's not something that just anyone could accomplish. Given that the Van Winkles have been more salesmen than distillers, it's certainly to be determined whether they can pull it off. Though, if anyone can, it's Julian III.

On a related note, I was recently informed that the S-W site in Shively is reopening...though there are no plans to distill or bottle whiskey there. It's been closed since 1991, at least partially due to asbestos abatement issues, but apparently those have been taken care of and the site will be used for warehousing as well as offices for Diageo's North American whiskey operations.

Cogito wrote:The odd thing is that if this particular still is the Holy Grail for so many people, why would they close it?

It's pretty hard to infer today's demand for their products based on the demand for bourbon in 1991. Not to mention that part of the reason it's so sought after, at least amongst a certain population, is also related to the fact that it is rare and nearly gone.

Darren72 wrote:

Cogito wrote:

jsagoff wrote:This whole thread is like discussing a mutual beloved friend with late-stage cancer. We're all just trying to savor what we might have left.

What's the deal with the closed Stitzel-Weller distillery? Can't ORVW make this stuff at another distillery? As long as they use their own formula of ingredients and techniques, wouldn't it be basically the same product? Obviously, I don't understand the nuances of this issue. Are you guys saying that PVW-15 is about to become extinct?

Although I've never had PVW, I couldn't help wasting 10 minutes digging around for more information about this. The PVW website isn't very helpful, but their Facebookpage seems to indicate that the 15 year is now made (but not yet released) at the Buffalo Trace distillery. They are still releasing the stuff from the SW distillery. But I could be wrong - I'm sort of reading between the lines.

There are a lot of rabbit holes to fall down out there on this topic, but you're right. BT started making the Van Winkle recipes in 2002, so their version of the 15 year is still a ways off.

Cogito wrote:The odd thing is that if this particular still is the Holy Grail for so many people, why would they close it?

Blame Guinness and follow the bouncing ball. Stitzel Weller distillery was opened in May of 1935 with Julian T "Pappy" Van Winkle at least part owner. The Van Winkle's sold the distillery in 1972 to Norton Simon who placed it with their Somerset Imports Division (think Canada Dry). In 1984 the distillery was acquired by Distillers Company Limited or DCL. In 1986 Guinness buys DCL which Schenley had also become a part of. In 1987 Guinness forms its spirits subsidiary by combining DCL with Arthur Bell & Sons and naming it United Distillers or UD. Sitzel Weller is ultimately closed by UD for distilling purposes in 1992 as UD built and opened the newer and supposed state of the art distillery, Bernheim, which is now owned by Heaven Hill. Some bottling continued for a few years at Stitzel Weller but 1992 was the real end for any distilling. In 1997 Diageo was created with UD and Grand Metropolitan becoming merged into it and now labelled as United Distillers & Vintners. The coup de grace was in 1999 with Diageo/United Distillers & Vinters selling the brand names that had been made at Stitzel Weller. Old Fitzgerald went to Heaven Hill, Weller to Sazerac/Buffalo Trace and Rebel Yell to David Sherman.

In corporate culture, money talks. If customers are willing to buy S-W products in preference to others, you would think that that fact would ensure its viability? But apparently not.

Cogito wrote:In corporate culture, money talks. If customers are willing to buy S-W products in preference to others, you would think that that fact would ensure its viability? But apparently not.

Not every barrel that came out of S-W was filled with gold. Here we're only talking about the honey barrels picked by the Van Winkle family. Also, business decisions revolving around long-aged spirits are far more complex then the simple truism you state. They couldn't predict the cult status that these whiskeys would attain in 1991 any more than you can tell me today what the market for bourbon will look like in 2031.

ETA: And, as I said above, a certain amount of the demand is linked to the scarcity. If they were still producing, some of the mystique and intrigue would not exist, and the hoarders would not really be much of a problem.

Got some Wild Turkey rye, it's alright, but I would like something smoother. I am enjoying the hell out of this PVW-15 though.

Cogito wrote:Got some Wild Turkey rye, it's alright, but I would like something smoother. I am enjoying the hell out of this PVW-15 though.

Smooth can mean a lot of different things, and it can probably be argued that rye, as a category, is inherently not smooth by most definitions of the word. However, Wild Turkey Rye is one of the rougher, spicier ryes available these days, so I wouldn't say there aren't smoother ryes out there. Templeton is probably the least abrasive rye I've tasted.

Found a bottle of PVW 15 year. $56 + tax. The establishment from which I bought it from says they are only allowed to sell one a day -- I have no idea how many they have in stock (they hid it on purpose behind a row of 12 year Lot B).

If you're desperate for this particular bourbon, PM me and I'll tell you where to get some.

In the past couple of months I've had the pleasure of a glass of PWV15 at Michael's Genuine in Miami and the Tasting Kitchen in Venice Beach...I don't know if it's really that much better than other bourbons or just the rarity...but it makes me quite happy. I'm keeping an eye out/fingers crossed for this fabled "fall" release.

Buffalo Trace's Facebook page says fall Van Winkle shipments won't begin until around Thanksgiving or so.

Good to know - thanks!

Any sightings yet?

jsagoff wrote:Any sightings yet?

Found a couple bottles of Old Rip 10 year (both the 107 and 90 proof bottlings) the weekend before last. They didn't look like they'd been there very long. No 15 year or older anywhere to be seen, except for a single bottle of 23 year spotted at $250, which is just not happening.

Bar's are just now starting to get their shipments of Pappy. I know they have hit the Kentucky and Florida markets.

Also I thought that it was crazy when I saw the 23yr old going for $250+++ but this latest batch that bottle comes in at $185 cost!!. So while not cheap, not the worst markup I have ever seen, espically for such a niche product.

Regards,

Bourbon

Where do you live? They are posting Facebook updates as shipments go out; it can take 1 to 1 1/2 weeks for product to actually show up on the shelves though.

https://www.facebook.com/oldripvanwinkle

Central and Northern Illinois have shipped!

http://www.facebook.com/oldripvanwinkle