NC [North Carolina]

Going to North Carolina for the holidays - a couple of nights in Raleigh, then a couple of nights in Wilmington. Any must-not-miss recommendations?

Quick question: are you driving from Raleigh to Wilmington?

(I'll post some recommendations later in the day; right now I don't have time to write them up. You could also do a search for dicksond's query (early June?) on a college-visiting trip he took with his daughter that included NC.)

Amata-the-Tarheel

driving - yes

Amata can tell you much more, I'm sure, but my first best advice is for you to leave Raleigh, drive to Chapel Hill, and eat at Allen & Son. One of the best BBQ experiences in arguably the best college town there is.

There are some interesting Mexican places around Raleigh, but you are not likely to find out much about them. Still very much a hidden culture there from what I've observed. Plus, it's unlikely you'd find anything not available in Chicago. Murray's BBQ, on Old Poole Rd. in Raleigh is worth seeking out. I tried some of the college hangs around NC State, and was unimpressed.

Hollyeats.com has accurate NC reviews for the area, including Murray's and Allen & Son.

I have to say I'm amazed by this board - I posted about two not-very-big cities and within 15 minutes had several recommendations. Amazing.

nr706 wrote:I have to say I'm amazed by this board - I posted about two not-very-big cities and within 15 minutes had several recommendations. Amazing.

Our motto: to serve and correct.*

A


* both terms can be taken two ways... By the way, I love Allen & Sons...

If you don't mind varying off of your intended path a bit, I highly recommend Ed Mitchell's Barbeque in Wilson. Ed cooks whole hog cue over wood. His sides are some really down home country vegetables served from a steam table.

Ed's mom makes the banana pudding served for dessert. It's good stuff.

Mitchell's Barbeque
606 Ward Blvd SE
Wilson, North Carolina
919-291-9189

I like Don Murray's BBQ on Capital Blvd in Raleigh. The pulled pork is outstanding and all of the sides are phenomenal.

Now, according to some, it is not "real BBQ" but the North Carolinians who have taken me there a number of times all think that it is very good food. And I would agree with them. Good turnip greens.

I just want to be clear that the Murray's I mentioned is a one-off, soul food/BBQ place not associated with the Don Murray's mini-chain, as best I understand. I've never been to the latter, but it does get mixed reviews.

nr706 wrote:Going to North Carolina for the holidays - a couple of nights in Raleigh, then a couple of nights in Wilmington. Any must-not-miss recommendations?

I have never eaten here but from my research if I could only choose one NC Style BBQ Joint this is the place. Its a dying breed of BBQ.

Pete Jones Skylight Inn

More Pete Jones Skylight Inn

Pete Jones's Skylight Inn
S. Lee Street
Ayden, NC 28489
(919) 746-4113

JeffB -

Don Murray's is NOT a chain or a mini-chain. It is a single restaurant.

I was on a project in Raleigh a couple of years back & we went to eat at Murray's (NOT Don Murray's) often for lunch.

Murray's is somewhat out of the way on Old Poole Road, about 7 or 8 miles from downtown Raleigh, but as I remember it had very good BBQ indeed. They cook whole hogs at once in a smokehouse that's separate from the restaurant. There are no ribs, etc. available, just pulled pork, and the sauce is (of course) the vinegar-based N.C. style, that probably could use some more peppers in it - I found it to be a bit bland, but you can always add hot sauce.... Every order is accompanied by hushpuppies hot & straight out of the fryer - yum!

It's in a cinder block building, and the decor consists pretty much solely of pictures of stock cars that line the walls, but hey - we ARE talking about Richard Petty country, after all... There were always several cops in there during lunch as well...

If you're in Raleigh, Murray's is definitely worth a trip if you're looking for authentic N.C. style, whole hog BBQ.

Murray's Bar-B-Que
4700 Old Poole Rd., Raleigh
(919) 231-6258

Bruce wrote:Pete Jones's Skylight Inn
S. Lee Street
Ayden, NC 28489
(919) 746-4113

The Skylight Inn is incredible, but it will require commitment on the part of the O.P., as it isn't anywhere near Raleigh, OR Wilmington.

I've made the detour before, when headed down towards Morehead City.

Erik M.

jlawrence01,

Sorry. You are right, I'm sure. I had been told that there were "satellite" Don Murray's, but I see no evidence of that on the Web. I didn't mean to suggest a chain like Smokey Bones, but a small-time operation like Leon's or Hecky's, with a handful of stores. But even that's not the case.

Anyway, my main point was to make the distinction. Folks in NC seem down on Don Murray's because it uses a gas fired smoker, not an old fashioned pit as does Murray's on Poole and Allen & Son.

What concerned me a bit about some of the criticisms of Don Murray's is that I looked over about 5 or 6 websites with negative comments on Don Murray's and four of them contained THE EXACT SAME LANGUAGE word for word. To me that is an indication that *someone* has an axe to grind. Having been the target of a web smear (and stalker) a few years ago, I am a little sensitive to that kind of stuff.

I spent three years north of the Triangle in the Petersburg, VA/ Dinwoodie County area of southern Virginia. During that period, I became acquainted personally with a number of BBQ stands. As I was a Yankee in the food business, I was invited to try and evaluate their product on a weekly basis. The locals would take great pride in their BBQ and take some great pleasure in bashing their competitor's product. Likewise, folks who preferred one over another would side up in almost a feuding manner. "Too bad we don't have **real BBQ** tonight", was something that I had to endure ad nauseum.

(By the way, never ask a BBQ guy for his sauce recipe until AFTER you have presented his daughter with the 2 caret ring and stood before the preacher.)

Personally, I don't care if they use gas or wood or if the BBQ comes out deus ex machina, my ONLY interest is how it tastes. (I also don't care about the business structure, the race of the cook, etc.) Just show me the food. 1) Does it taste good? 2) Next week when I am there again, will it taste good again?

The problem that I have with a lot of these BBQ joints is that 1) when I get there, they are out of half the menu items and 2) the BBQ is dried out.[/u]

As previous posters have mentioned, eastern NC style barbecue is the "don't miss" item, till you get down to the coast and the seafood. I'd say go to either Allen and Son in Chapel Hill or Wilber's in Goldsboro (not too far off track for driving to Wilmington and easy to get to from Raleigh) - or both! Addresses, etc below; these aren't the sort of places to have web pages, but I've linked to Hollyeats.com which has photos of both.

Directions to Allen and Son from Raleigh:* take I-40 west from Raleigh, get off at exit 266 for Hwy 86. Turn right (north) and go a little over a mile. Allen and Son is on the left, near the railroad tracks.

If you drive over to Chapel Hill you can enjoy the campus and the (tiny) adjacent main drag of Franklin St, as Jeff mentions. (From Allen and Son go south on Hwy 86, which turns into Airport Road and then Columbia Road, intersecting Franklin.) Other Chapel Hill possibilities: if you feel like seeing more of the rural side of NC, Maple View Farm is a dairy farm near Allen and Son which makes great ice cream, available at their country store where you can sit in a rocking chair on the front porch. (From Allen and Son drive south on Hwy 86 to Homestead Road, then follow the directions on Maple View Farm's web page for coming from north Chapel Hill.) Also in Chapel Hill is A Southern Season, a big gourmet specialty store at University Mall. Besides wines, cheeses, coffees, etc and cooking classes by the likes of Patricia Wells they have a lot in the way of "North Carolina" items (maybe too much!) but among the things worth trying are Moravian spice cookies from the Old Salem settlement in Winston Salem, Highland shortbread from the mountains, and Peach Bud candies.

You might need to eat something besides barbecue while in the Triangle! In Durham there is a very upscale, "nouvelle Southern" restaurant called Magnolia Grill - definitely worth a visit, though it can be hard to get reservations. Also in Durham, on the road to Chapel Hill, is the highly-praised Guglhupf Bakery which recently started serving breakfast and lunch. On Chowhound South posters also think highly of Waraji (Japanese) in Raleigh and Udipi (Indian) in Cary, a suburb of Raleigh.

I haven't been to Wilmington in ages, but my parents were there a couple years ago and had Thanksgiving dinner at the Pilot House, which they liked very much. It's in the Chandler's Wharf area near the river. Addresses for all these places are below.

Enjoy your trip!

Allen & Son Pit-Cooked Bar-B-Q
6203 Mill House Rd (at NC Highway 86 North)
Chapel Hill
(919) 942-7576.
Open Tue.-Fri., 10am-8pm; Sat., 7am-8pm; closed Sun.-Mon.
See short writeup at www.hollyeats.com/AllenSonBBQ.htm

Wilber's Barbecue
4172 US Highway 70 E
Goldsboro, NC 27534
(919) 778-5218
see www.hollyeats.com/Wilbers.htm

Maple View Farm Country Store
6900 Rocky Ridge Road
Hillsborough, NC 27278
(919) 960-5535
www.mapleviewfarm.com
Store open noon-10 pm daily

A Southern Season
University Mall (Estes Drive between Franklin St. and 15-501)
(919) 929-7133
www.southernseason.com
M-Sat 10-9; Sun 12-6

Magnolia Grill
1002 9th St
Durham, NC 27705
(919) 286-3609
http://uncpress.unc.edu/magnoliagrillcookbook/mg.html

Guglhupf Bakery & Patisserie
2706 Chapel Hill Rd
Durham, NC 27707
(919) 401-2600
www.guglhupf.com
T-F 7-6; Sat 8-5; Sun 9-3; closed Monday

Waraji Japanese Restaurant
5910 Duraleigh Rd
Raleigh, NC 27612
(919) 783-1883
www.waraji.citysearch.com
Mon-Fri 11:30am- 2:00pm
Mon-Thu 5:30pm- 9:30pm
Fri-Sat 5:30pm-10:30pm

Shree Udipi Cafe
590 E Chatham St
Cary, NC 27511
(919) 465-0898
Tues-Sun 11:30am-3pm, 4:30pm-9:30pm

Pilot House
2 Ann St
Wilmington, NC 28401
(910) 343-0200
www.pilothouserest.com

* I'm very embarrassed to discover that I gave wrong directions to Allen and Son in a response to dicksond last June. No wonder he couldn't find the place! I'll go back and correct the previous post as well. Mea culpa!

Antonius and I were in Chapel Hill visiting my folks the week before Christmas. I can add further details about some of the places I listed above, and mention a couple more. (A different write up on these places is posted on Chowhound South.)

Allen and Son Barbecue: great barbecue, as always, accompanied by excellent hush puppies and slaw. And as authentic as you could want, despite the Chapel Hill mailing address. For one thing, I doubt any place in Chapel Hill proper relies on taxidermy for its decor to the extent that Allen and Son does. (Hollyeats' page includes a picture of their stuffed fox.) We sat under an antlered head that Lucantonius assumed was one of Santa's reindeer. Yes, we're willing to traumatize a young child in pursuit of a great meal, aren't you?

The first time I took Antonius to Chapel Hill he was teasing me along the lines of "We've been here three days! When am I going to hear a Southern accent?" (It's true that Chapel Hill is a nest of New-Yorker-reading, Democrat-voting carpetbaggers, including my parents.) Then we went to Allen and Son. Polyglot Antonius could not at first understand a word the waitress said. Of course by the end of the meal his ear adjusted and he was able to order his own fried okra, but it's clear that some cultural boundary is crossed in the few miles drive north from Chapel Hill to Allen and Son.

Guglhupf Bakery and Cafe Speaking of authenticity, in our pursuit of authentic German food we are willing to go anywhere from Daley Plaza to Durham, NC? Yes, oddly enough, there is a completely authentic German bakery in Durham on the road to Chapel Hill, not too far from a Hardees and other crappy chains. The two owners are natives of Munich who apparently picked the location just by searching on the internet for a place which would provide a good market and be 'someplace fun'. [Durham??] They've done so well with their German and other upscale baked goods that they have now opened a cafe. We went and enjoyed the food very much (pork and bean soup to start, followed by a Wurstplatte (various cold cuts, slices of gruyere, slivers of horseradish, hard boiled egg, mustard, and cornichon pickles, served with a basket of excellent breads). But, boy was it noisy in that cafe: our table of five could not hold a conversation. If it had been a little warmer we could have sat outside, but as it was the racket inside diminished our enjoyment of the excellent food.

Parvaneh Also surprising to find in Chapel Hill is a good little storefront place serving Persian food. It's run by a couple, Parvaneh and her husband, next door to Parvaneh's beauty salon. Antonius and I each started with a cup of ash, a bean and noodle soup, nibbled at the nun-o-panir appetizer of feta, parsley, walnuts and pita bread, then followed it with two excellent main courses: a combination of joojeh kabob and kubideh kabob on basmati rice for me (chunks of chicken breast sprinkled with sumac; spiced ground beef), and khoresh ghaimeh badenjun for Antonius (stew of lamb, tomato, and eggplant). I also ordered doogh, a salty, sour yogurt drink.

Maple View Farm The ice cream from this local dairy is available at various venues in Chapel Hill, but they also have a "country store" near their farm where one can get ice cream cones, etc. The drive out there is lovely: while the rest of the Triangle seems to be in a hurry to pave everything over and plop down Macaroni Grills and Walmarts, the roads northwest of Chapel Hill are still rural - we passed horses and goats and cows and little hand painted signs advertising pottery and baskets for sale. That day it was warm enough to leave the jackets at home, sit on the front porch, and enjoy the view. My scoop of coffee in a waffle cone was excellent.

The write up on Chowhound has some further details on Squids (reliable seafood place) and Top of the Hill (brewpub in center of town; food was better than I had feared). See the post above for addresses of Allen and Son, Guglhupf, and Maple View Farm; others are below.

Cafe Parvaneh
400-J S. Elliott Rd
Chapel Hill, NC
(919) 929-2779
M- Th 10-8; F-Sat 10-9; closed Sunday
http://cafep.com/

Squids Restaurant and Oyster Bar
1201 N Fordham Blvd
Chapel Hill, NC 27514
(919) 942-8757
www.squidsrestaurant.com
T-Th 5- 9:30; F-Sat 5-10; Sun-M 5- 9

Top of the Hill Restaurant and Brewery
100 East Franklin Street, Third Floor
Chapel Hill, NC 27514
(919) 929-8676
www.topofthehillrestaurant.com
11 am - 2 am daily

Amata wrote:Antonius and I were in Chapel Hill visiting my folks the week before Christmas...

To add some further notes to the above round up by Amata, I offer the following:

Allen and Son Barbecue: Amata has taken me here a number of times before and I've always loved the cue. The hush puppies, which are a little sweet, and the cole slaw, which is 'mayonnaisey', always struck me as serviceable sides but nothing I would go out of the way for. Well, this time, I finally saw the light. Suddenly the whole combination of cue and pups and slaw, with alternating liberal splashes of the house hot sauce and Texas Pete's just made perfect sense. I was so enraptured with this plate of food, I momentarily lost it and screamed out: "This place makes me wanna drawl!"

Drawlin', droolin'... I love NC cue (eastern style!).

My only complaint about Allen & Sons is that they don't have a liquor license. I really would have loved a couple of beers to wash down that meal.

Guglhupf Bakery and Cafe: The pork and bean soup was good but could have been a little better I think. The 'wurst/charcuterie' plate was very nice and the breads excellent. The ordering/serving system is so un-German I was shocked, as was the appallingly loud and constant din... But then, the owners are southerners... Bavarians, that is...

Long live Prussia.

Parvaneh: I loved this place. The nun-o-panir (feta, parsley, walnuts) was a nice simple starter (good for breakfast too!) and the khoresh ghaimeh badenjun I had as the main dish was delicious. The accompanying rice was also very nice. They have a liquor license and serve both wine and beer as well as doogh, the weird, salty yoghurt drink. A taste of that was good but I couldn't chug a whole big tumbler full.

We ate very well during our stay in Chapel Hill but I must confess that I started to exhibit classic symptoms of maccheroni-deprivation-syndrome.

East or west, spaghet' is best.

Antonius

Just got back from NC, and since I started this thread, I thought I should report back. Here's where we ate out:

Thu 12/23: Plane 4 hours late — while waiting, learned that O'Hare doesn't have the best Italian Beef in the city.

Fri 12/24: Break in last-minute shopping — Carolina Ale House, a local chain, about 25 brews on draft — mostly safe, mildly interesting choices, decent pub fare

Sat 12/25: Dinner at Carolina Crossroads in Carolina Inn (Chapel Hill): Normal menu not available — prix fixe buffet only. Buffet started late morning; our reservation was for 5:30 pm (last seating was 6). Since the offerings weren't changed during the day, it made for some pretty interesting meal choices (French Toast and Oatmeal for Christmas dinner, anyone?) Our party of 11 ordered wine and drinks shortly after being seated, with the idea of having a drink and a little conversation before going over to the buffet for food. Two ordered cocktails; nine of us were wine drinkers — my brother took charge of red, I had white. All drink orders were placed at the same time (you can tell where this is going, right?)

Within five minutes, my brother got the wine he ordered. A few minutes later, they brought the white and opened it. As they started to pour it for the initial sampling, I noticed — right winery, wrong varietal. I'd ordered a Sauvignon Blanc, they brought the same winery's (more expensive) Chardonnay. I pointed it out just before the first drops of the wrong wine were about to be introduced into my wine glass (The waiter's comment was "Lucky I didn't pour it for you." - Were they intending to charge us for the bottle if the first drop actually hit the bottom of my wine glass?) They immediately agreed to go back and get the right bottle. In the meantime we reminded them again of the two drink orders.

Ten minutes later they came back, and proved they'd learned a little: 1) they presented the bottle to me before opening it; but 2) it was the same bottle (at least unopened this time) that they'd trotted out previously. I tried valiantly to resist suggesting that they look for a bottle with a varietal name starting with "S" rather than with "C" (I would have been happy with a Semillion at that point); I'm not sure I was adequately able to resist. After another 10 minutes, the waiter came back to report that they'd sent someone to the basement (couldn't he have used the term "cellar"?) to find the Sauvignon Blanc. We again reminded another waiter of the two drink orders.

After approx. 35 — 40 minutes their drinks arrived. Well, technically, only one arrived. The other was ordered as a vodka Gibson; a vodka gimlet showed up. We asked for a replacement drink — it arrived about 15 minutes later.

By this time, the concept of a little nice chat over drinks had deteriorated, and two camps emerged: 1) waiting for drinks before starting on the food, and 2) dammit, screw the drinks and let's finally eat. I sided with the first group, not because I'm personally stubborn (I stubbornly insist I'm not), but because some of the seniors in the group wanted a chance at a drink and nice conversation first before going for food.

After another 10 minutes or so, amazingly, the Sauvignon Blanc we ordered actually arrived. After the perfunctory sampling and approval, I noticed that several waiters were conferring quietly with a guy who appeared to be the manager — the fact that the conference was at the end of our table suggested to me that they were considering us a "problem group."

The manager came over and asked if everything was alright. In our most respectful, WASPish manner we suggested that some elements of the service had been problematic. We also asked if, since at this point we were well beyond the time of the last seating, there would still be food left when we went up to the buffet. The manager assured us that they would make sure that everything on the menu remained available.

Again, it's easy to predict. I went to the buffet for salad, and selected some Caesar Salad for my plate (basically Romaine and Croutons, with dressing on the side) — except after putting the salad on my plate I realized they were out of Caesar dressing. I asked one of the attendants, and he said they'd refill it in a minute or two. Seven minutes later, another attendant came in, and I asked him about the dressing. He said he'd send it to the table. It arrived about 20 minutes later.

So by the time we got to dessert we were told "Sorry, we're out of the Bavarian Forest Cake" and "Sorry, we're out of the chocolate-dipped strawberries." The clear implication from the people making those comments was that we should have gotten there earlier.

But the manager wasn't particularly lucky that Christmas night. As I was retreating from all the "Sorry, we're out of" comments, I saw him in the hallway. I went up to him, starting the conversation with "I don't want to be a problem, but ..." I reminded him of what he had said previously about not running out of menu items. His response - "Well, I didn't mean that the same things would be available, but we'd try to find comparable things to replace whatever we run out of."

Admittedly, buffet meals are difficult to pull off — anything that's put out must be able to held for a long time — in this case possibly many hours — and still try to maintain the freshness of flavors. And I assume that the buffet concept wasn't the chef's idea — it was probably something foisted on the chef by management. Indeed, my guess is the chef and top staff was allowed to take Christmas Day off, bringing in junior staff, which may have contributed to all the problems.

And, in the end, they did bring out some (seemingly recently unfrozen) chocolate créme pie as a replacement for the Bavarian Forest Cake, and some clearly recently-dipped chocolate strawberries (although without the white chocolate and gold leaf accents on the strawberries we saw when we walked in).

I'm still wondering if I was too harsh, although I do think they set expectations at a level they failed to deliver. I think their damage control efforts were valiant, but they got themselves into the position to require damage control. But, it happens.

Sun 12/26 Lunch at Don Murray's, Raleigh — Another buffet (although my brother ordered ribs off the menu — they were near-perfect, Buffet pulled pork was a little tough and dry, but benefited greatly from the vinegary red pepper sauce. Sides — cole slaw, greens and (esp.) cabbage (!) were excellent, as was the fried chicken. Waitress (w. sassy attitude which added to the fun) admitted that they don't smoke during cold weather — they smoke their meat when weather is better and freeze a lot of it, then heat it up.

Sun 12/26 Dinner Café Phoenix Wilmington — Excellent, reasonably priced food. Started with Romesco Shrimp appetizer, Shaved Fennel & Pear salad, and Salmon a la Phoenix. Slightly funky interior — large interesting artworks, very reasonably priced

Prior to dinner, went to Front Street Brewery. I've been to a lot of brewpubs, and I brew my own beer, and I can say this place is top-tier (although their attempt at a low-carb blueberry beer — Loose Fit Blues — makes me wonder what they were thinking).

Mon 12/27 Dinner Circa 1922 — across the street from the brewery, offers a $17 3-course prix fixe menu (although that may be only for weeks when college students are out and it's off-season for beach types). The organic salad was excellent, the filet en croute creditable, and the dessert very good. Nice wine list, too.

Overall, it's a very small downtown, but there is probably a lot more to do there at other times of the year.

Wow, nr, that is indeed a horrible experience you describe. (You should also post about it (and the other places?) on the Chowhound South board.)

Is Carolina Crossroads what they are calling the restaurant in the Carolina Inn these days? The Carolina Inn is a really beautiful building, a hotel actually, right in the middle of campus. But as nice as it looks, I have never had a good meal there. You charitably suggested that the lapses in service you described were the result of the top staff having Christmas off; I wouldn't be so sure. I think it's just a cursed location.

I wish I had known that you and your family would be looking for a dinner spot in Chapel Hill on the 25th. I would have suggested trying Il Palio in the Hotel Siena instead.

The Wilmington places sound great, though -- makes me think about a beachy trip down there once it gets a little warmer! Thanks for the report.

Erik M wrote:

nr706 wrote:Sun 12/26 Dinner Cafe Phoenix Wilmington - Excellent, reasonably priced food. Started with Romesco Shrimp appetizer, Shaved Fennel & Pear salad, and Salmon a la Phoenix. Slightly funky interior - large interesting artworks, very reasonably priced.

Glad to hear that Cafe Phoenix is still going strong. I can vividly recall the meal that I had there, eight years ago.

For future reference, I would highly recommend the accomodations at the Front Street Inn, in Wilmington.

Erik M.

Stayed at the Wilmingtonian - the Eugene O'Neil Suite - very comfy - but saw the Front Street Inn - an equally convenient location.

Erik M. wrote:

nr706 wrote:Sun 12/26 Dinner Cafe Phoenix Wilmington - Excellent, reasonably priced food. Started with Romesco Shrimp appetizer, Shaved Fennel & Pear salad, and Salmon a la Phoenix. Slightly funky interior - large interesting artworks, very reasonably priced.

Glad to hear that Cafe Phoenix is still going strong. I can vividly recall the meal that I had there, eight years ago.

For future reference, I would highly recommend the accomodations at the Front Street Inn, in Wilmington.

Erik M.

nr706 wrote:Stayed at the Wilmingtonian - the Eugene O'Neil Suite - very comfy - but saw the Front Street Inn - an equally convenient location.

I generally cannot stand the B&B aesthetic, and so for that reason I rarely stay in them. Lace, poster beds, chintz... it is enough to make me violently ill. We picked Front Street because it seemed, at the time, like the least egregious offender in that regard. And yes, it was very convenient to what little action Wilmington manages to see.

Cheers,
Erik M.