Tate & Lyle treacle +[British Bitter Ale]

Hi,

A friend of mine is looking for Tate & Lyle treacle, does anyone have a source?

What is treacle?

Cost Plus World Markets seems to be carrying a lot of goods from the British Isles lately.

jlawrence01 wrote:What is treacle?

Treacle is a thick sugar syrup, usually very dark, approaching even black (though sometimes it's made light brown), that's used to make Treacle tarts. They still use it a lot in England and I believe it used to be used with some frequency on this side of the ocean.

Antonius

Hi,

Is it possibly another name for molasses? The dictionary confirms this though Brits usually want their native brand over domestic produced. I've noticed some containers will stated it was a sulphured molasses and some specify no-sulphur. It may be the UK treacle uses a process we may not, though they are very similar products.

Treacle pie is similar to transparent pies such as Pecan Pie. I recently made some molasses pies, which are really quite strong flavored.

JL, C2:

Here's a description of the difference and a link to the source of the following quote:

In practice however, there is a technical difference between 'treacle' and 'Molasses' in that molasses is obtained from the drainings of raw sugar during the refining process and treacle is made from the syrup obtained from the sugar.

Antonius

I believe that one of the defining characteristics of Theakston's Old Peculiar Ale is that it uses treacle as the primary adjunct.

I went to Cost Plus at lunch. They do NOT carry treacle. They DO carry Lyle's Golden Syrup which is made by the Tate and Lyle Company.

I will check Woodman's tomorrow night and see if I can find it ...

Hi,

I have been specifically recommended Lyle's Golden Syrup as a substitute for Karo syrup when making Pecan Pies. One of these days, I have to make all the variants of pecan pies (light and dark karo syrup, less and more brown sugar, molasses and Lyle's Golden Syrup - about 7 pies) for side-by-side comparison.

I am also starting to collect a bunch of opinionated people on the subject. At least I now know where to find the Lyle's Golden Syrup.

Thanks!

Regards,

How about some Steen's Cane Syrup from Abbeville, LA? cathy - I have a can in my kitchen that could be traded for a pie ... or maybe a piece.

Cathy2 wrote:At least I now know where to find the Lyle's Golden Syrup.

Also at Fox & Obel, $5.99 for a maybe 16 oz? jar. No treacle that I could see, though.

Whoa.

I too noticed Lyle's Golden Syrup, for the first time in my life, just a few days ago. They had it at Whole Foods.

The mention of treacle surely demands a quotation from the most famous literary usage of treacle (the actual substance, not the metaphorical artistic kind):

`Once upon a time there were three little sisters,' the Dormouse began in a great hurry; `and their names were Elsie, Lacie, and Tillie; and they lived at the bottom of a well--'

`What did they live on?' said Alice, who always took a great interest in questions of eating and drinking.

`They lived on treacle,' said the Dormouse, after thinking a minute or two.

`They couldn't have done that, you know,' Alice gently remarked; `they'd have been ill.'

`So they were,' said the Dormouse; `VERY ill.'

Alice tried to fancy to herself what such an extraordinary ways of living would be like, but it puzzled her too much, so she went on: `But why did they live at the bottom of a well?'

`Take some more tea,' the March Hare said to Alice, very earnestly.

`I've had nothing yet,' Alice replied in an offended tone, `so I can't take more.'

`You mean you can't take LESS,' said the Hatter: `it's very easy to take MORE than nothing.'

`Nobody asked YOUR opinion,' said Alice.

`Who's making personal remarks now?' the Hatter asked triumphantly.

Alice did not quite know what to say to this: so she helped herself to some tea and bread-and-butter, and then turned to the Dormouse, and repeated her question. `Why did they live at the bottom of a well?'

The Dormouse again took a minute or two to think about it, and then said, `It was a treacle-well.'

`There's no such thing!' Alice was beginning very angrily, but the Hatter and the March Hare went `Sh! sh!' and the Dormouse sulkily remarked, `If you can't be civil, you'd better finish the story for yourself.'

`No, please go on!' Alice said very humbly; `I won't interrupt again. I dare say there may be ONE.'

`One, indeed!' said the Dormouse indignantly. However, he consented to go on. `And so these three little sisters--they were learning to draw, you know--'

`What did they draw?' said Alice, quite forgetting her promise.

`Treacle,' said the Dormouse, without considering at all this time.

`I want a clean cup,' interrupted the Hatter: `let's all move one place on.'

He moved on as he spoke, and the Dormouse followed him: the March Hare moved into the Dormouse's place, and Alice rather unwillingly took the place of the March Hare. The Hatter was the only one who got any advantage from the change: and Alice was a good deal worse off than before, as the March Hare had just upset the milk-jug into his plate.

Alice did not wish to offend the Dormouse again, so she began very cautiously: `But I don't understand. Where did they draw the treacle from?'

`You can draw water out of a water-well,' said the Hatter; `so I should think you could draw treacle out of a treacle-well--eh, stupid?'

`But they were IN the well,' Alice said to the Dormouse, not choosing to notice this last remark.

`Of course they were', said the Dormouse; `--well in.'

Here's another interesting link, partly explains the above:

http://www.plokta.com/plokta/issue10/treacle.htm

Thank you for helping with "the search for Treacle".

This is Hope the Dumb Brit Friend of Cathy 2. I forgot both Treacle Pudding and Treacle Tart are all made with Tate and Lyle's Golden syrup.
But in my defense in the UK it's frequently called treacle.

A bit of info about Treacle. Along with spreading it on bread and butter, it's most common use. It's used in Treacle pudding ,Treacle tart and for making Toffee. Black treacle is very similar to but not the same as light molasses. I was bothered by the total desecration of Theakston's Old Peculier by suggesting it was made with treacle. Just in case I was out in left field again I looked up the recipe in Wheeler and Protz "Brew your own British Real Ale At home" as it has recpes of commercial brands of beers and ales. I was right no treacle. But I did find a recipe in C. J. Berry's "Beers and Stouts " for a Treacle Beer. So the suggestion was not to far out.

Hope,

That means that we helped you find what you needed. I am glad that the little jaunt to Cost Plus was not unsuccessful!!!

AND ... I found the Bird's Custard Powder at the same time. Now what is THAT used for.

So many British food that I have never tried that is now available at Woodman's and Cost Plus World Markets!!

Birds custard Powder is what it says a easy way to make a sweet custard.

It can be used cold in triffel. But usally it is served warm to go with pies tarts pudding and stewed fruit.

Hope wrote:I was bothered by the total desecration of Theakston's Old Peculier by suggesting it was made with treacle. Just in case I was out in left field again I looked up the recipe in Wheeler and Protz "Brew your own British Real Ale At home" as it has recpes of commercial brands of beers and ales. I was right no treacle. But I did find a recipe in C. J. Berry's "Beers and Stouts " for a Treacle Beer. So the suggestion was not to far out.

Wasn't meant as a desecration at all. Just to be clear .... EVERYBODY OUT THERE, GO DRINK PINTS AND PINTS OF THEAKSTON'S OLD PECULIER! NOW!

Okay, was that a little clearer? It's good stuff. I think you can get it at the Hop Leaf or Quencher's, but I haven't checked lately.

There's nothing wrong with treacle in a beer - it's a lot more flavorful than the junk most mainstream American breweries use as adjuncts.

RE : Old Peculier. You can get it at Woodmans as far as ales go it's pritty good.

What I have yet to find over here is a "good English bitter" .

Good German beers are available but the bitters do not seem to make the trip to the mid-west.

What I have yet to find over here is a "good English bitter" .

Hope -

I share your longing for a good English bitter. I had no idea that what I was enjoying in pubs in Oxford was gonna be so freakin' hard to find on this side of the puddle.

That said, I had some beer at Yard House in a Disneyesque development in Glenview that was good-English-bitter-like. Don't remember what it was called, but it was #1 or #2 in the beer flight they were selling last Friday To quote nr706:

Yard House has an amazing 130 beers on tap - most pretty interesting picks. And pints are only $2.50 on Mondays.
1880 Tower Drive (The Glen development), Glenview

To which I would add: the atmosphere was plastic, the food passable, and the beer list kicks ass.

Giovanna

Hope-

E-mail to me what you consider to be good British bitters and I will put them on my list "to look out for." I am not promising anything but ... I never knew what golden syrup was and found it.

jlawrence01 wrote:E-mail to me what you consider to be good British bitters...

Or post! The more eyes the better, no?

Wow!
I am impressed I was just complaining but if any one sees any of the following bitters I would love to hear about it.
Archers Best Bitter.
Banks and Taylor Shefford Bitter
Batemans
Boddingtons
Courage Best Bitter
Flowers Original Bitter
Fullers London Pride
Wadworth 6x
Youngs.
Yorkshire Bitter.

I am guessing there is a preservative problem if you put suphates in Bitters they do not taste the same. I know in the past draugh bitter would contain live yeast. Making it impotant for a publican to keep the "lines clean". Otherwise they would get sick customers.

Hope wrote:Wow!
I am impressed I was just complaining but if any one sees any of the following bitters I would love to hear about it.
Archers Best Bitter.
Banks and Taylor Shefford Bitter
Batemans
Boddingtons
Courage Best Bitter
Flowers Original Bitter
Fullers London Pride
Wadworth 6x
Youngs.
Yorkshire Bitter.

Here's the draft beer list at Yard House in Glenview; it includes several of the ones you're looking for:

Abita Brewing Purple Haze
Allagash White
Anderson Valley Boont Amber Ale
Anderson Valley Hop Ottin I.P.A
Amstel Light
Bass Ale
Beamish Irish Stout
Bear Republic Racer 5 I.P.A.
Becks
Belhaven Scottish Ale
Bells Amber Ale
Bells Porter
Bells Seasonal
Bitburger Pilsner
Blue Moon
Boddingtons Pub Ale
Bud Light
Budweiser
Coors Light
De Koninck Ale
Delirium Tremens
Dogfish 60 Minute I.P.A.
Dos Equis Amber
Dos Equis Lager
Erdinger Hefetrub Weisse
Fosters Lager
Franziskaner Hefe-Weisse
Fullers E.S.B. Strong Ale
Fullers London Pride Pale Ale
George Killian Irish Red
Goose Island 312 Wheat
Goose Island Honkers
Goose Island I.P.A.
Goose Island Seasonal
Gosser Dark
Great Lakes Burning River Pale Ale
Great Lakes Dortmunder Gold Lager
Grolsch
Guinness Stout
Gulden Draak
Harp Lager
Heineken
Hobgoblin Ale
Hoegaarden White
J.W. Dundee Honey Brown Lager
John Courage
Kirin Ichiban
Labatt Blue
Labatt Blue Light
Leffe
Leinenkugel
Leinenkugel's Honey Weiss
Leinenkugel's Lager
Leinenkugel's Red Lager
Lindeman's Framboise
Löwenbräu
Magner's Irish Cider
Maredsous
Maudite
McEwan's Export Ale
McSorley's Irish Ale
Michelob Amber Bock
Michelob Ultra
Miller Genuine Draft
Miller Lite
Molson Canadian
Moosehead Lager
Newcastle Brown Ale
North Coast Red Seal Ale
Old Style
Paulaner Hefeweizen
Paulaner Premium Pilsner
Paulaner Salvator
Pilsner Urquell
Piraat
Pyramid Apricot Ale
Pyramid Hefeweizen
Radeberger Pilsner
Red Hook Black Nitro
Red Hook Blonde
Red Hook E.S.B.
Red Hook I.P.A.
Red Hook Seasonal
Rogue Dead Guy Ale
Rogue Hazelnut Brown Ale
Rogue Red
Rolling Rock
Sam Adams Boston Lager
Sam Adams Seasonal
Sand Creek Brewing Vienna Lager
Sierra Nevada Pale Ale
Sierra Nevada Seasonal
Smithwick's
Spaten Pilsner
Spaten Premium Lager
Sprecher Black Bavarian Lager
St. Pauli Girl
Staropramen
Stella Artois
Stiegl Pils
Summit Brewing Extra Pale Ale
Summit Brewing I.P.A.
Summit Brewing Porter
Tennent's Lager
Three Floyds Alpha King
Three Floyds Robert The Bruce
Two Brothers Brewing Domaine DuPage F.C.A
Two Brothers Brewing Seasonal
Wittekerke
Woodchuck Amber Cider
Wyder's Pear Cider
Young's Chocolate Stout
Young's Oatmeal Stout

(no connection to Yard House, just impressed with their variety, and unimpressed with their gimmicky plastic atmosphere - which is easy to overlook after several pints of really good stuff.)

edited for formatting & badly translated punctuation marks only

nr706 wrote:Here's the draft beer list at Yard House in Glenview

That's all on tap?!?

Wow. And is it all $2.50/pint on Monday? If so, I may need to take a Tuesday off work and head up to Glenview.

Aaron Deacon wrote:That's all on tap?!?

Wow. And is it all $2.50/pint on Monday? If so, I may need to take a Tuesday off work and head up to Glenview.

Yes, that's all on tap - it's a chain, based out of S. Calif - I believe some of the ones out there have more beers on draft. And the card I got from them (about a month ago) promotes the Monday deal - but I can't confirm that the promotion is still in effect. But beforewarned about the chain-y gimmicky atmosphere and only okay but not great food IMHO.

You know, I'd kind of forgotten about the over-the-top beers on tap schtick. When I lived in Dallas, there were three or four places, outposts of smallish chains I believe, that had ridiculous numbers of beers on tap and various incentives to try all 150, or however many. It was to my great astonishment when I first moved here that there seemed to be so few "beer" bars. I eventually discovered the Hop Leaf, Map Room, et al., and there overall quality sort of erased my memory of the hectotap pub. But now that I think of it again, it is somewhat surprising that the concept has not yet taken hold here.

I mentioned to a friend of mine who works as a liquor inspector for the state that I'd been impressed by the vast numbers of beer on tap at Yard House, and he said that he thought there were up to 120 of them and said in a very approving tone "and they keep the lines very clean." I speculated that that was likely to be a full-time job.

Giovanna

And while I'm thinking of it, how does treacle compare to that southern favorite, cane syrup?

Giovanna

That is quite a list of beers.

Imagine what happens when some misguided fool walks in and asks for "just a beer."

I did not see the word 'Bitter' unless it is spelled out usually the beer isn't.

The breweries all make many different beers and ales not to say barley wines.

Hope wrote:That is quite a list of beers.

Imagine what happens when some misguided fool walks in and asks for "just a beer."

I did not see the word 'Bitter' unless it is spelled out usually the beer isn't.

The breweries all make many different beers and ales not to say barley wines.

I recognize we're getting way off-topic here, but, according to noted beer guru and Rogers Park resident Randy Mosher, in his classic book "The Brewer's Companion" there's really little-to-no difference between a "bitter" and a "pale ale" - except that bitters are usually served on tap, and pale ales are usually bottled. So by that criterion, I guess the Yard House shouldn't be using the term "Pale Ale," although I'm sure they do it because it's a much more recognizable/friendly term than "bitter."

Hope wrote:I did not see the word 'Bitter' unless it is spelled out usually the beer isn't.

I believe E.S.B. means Extra Special Bitter, so the Fuller's should work. Red Hook makes and E.S.B. also, and while it's decent enough for the price, it won't make you forget you're not across the sea.

No difference between pale ale and bitter! Oh my stars!

That's as bad as saying there is no difference between chocolate and vanilla ice cream

Although they do share a lot of the same ingredients I think Mr. Mosher could benefit from 6-9mth touring the UK and sampling both Pale ale and bitter. It would not be a good thing to say in a pub that there was no difference.

There is strong regional difference in the bitter he is right Pale Ale is usually bottled but there is a difference in the taste. Good Bitters tend to have more than one kind of hop although some Pale ales also have more than one kind of hop the bitter have a mellow taste with more body than the pale ale.

I think I will have to make it to get a decent brew at a decent price.