I have Henckel and Chef's Choice -- love both, but I'm always looking. Anyone have any experience with the Shun knives that Alton Brown favors?

Based on a suggestion from an old LTH thread, I purchased a Lee Valley peasant's knife about a year ago for about $20.
It's a great, cheap, all-purpose kitchen knife.
http://www.leevalley.com/garden/page.as ... 0733,40738

Cynthia wrote:I have Henckel and Chef's Choice -- love both, but I'm always looking. Anyone have any experience with the Shun knives that Alton Brown favors?

Not sure if these are specifically the models favored by AB but I have 2 and I really love them. I bought the first one, the 8" chef, back in 2005 after I gripped it at W-S. I found that it felt just about perfect, so I sliced a few grapes that happened to be in the store and ended up taking it home with me. I loved it so much that back in December 2006, when I received a W-S gift certificate, I went back and picked up the 10" model.

The 8" was the first "smaller" knife that ever felt truly comfortable in my hand. I've always used 10" chef knives and was very surprised how natural the 8" felt in my hand and very impressed by how well it allowed me to perform. I enjoy the 10" version too but I don't use it as much as the 8".

These knives are essentially hybrids. I love their western-style handles, which are just about perfect for my hand. Their 'eastern-style" blades have a lot of rock to them, which distinguishes them from most of the other knives in my block. They're quite sharp and hold an edge very well.

Other Shun knives (non-Ken Onion) have more rounded handles, which I do not like. I find I need to grip them more firmly to prevent them from rolling in my hand. Doing so is fatiguing and tires out my hand pretty quickly. Of course, your mileage may vary

=R=

i'm lazy and don't often take the time to get out a stone and sharpen my knives, so i love my sabatier carbon steel knives.

the carbon steel is harder, even, than the various molybednium alloys that your henkels, wustofs, and globals employ, so once it's got an edge, it lasts a very long time. i have them sharpened once a year or so by the guy who shows up at my farmer's market with his wheel. and they're usually not even dull by then, just not really *sharp*.

yes, they discolor. yes, they rust if allowed to sit wet. so what? are you buying knives because they look pretty or because they cut things well?

sabatiers are typical old-school european-style knives. the tang is kind of harsh, so if you use it a lot you'll get a callous on your finger. they're a bit thinner and more delicate than the germans (wustof, henkels) and not as thin and wispy as the japanese-style knives.

for me, they're perfect. i love working with them.

http://www.fantes.com/carbon.htm

The 10" GunterWilhelm is my favorite knife. The fit, feel and cut is much better than my Twin Henkles or Wustofs...but again...that's a personal thing.

dan[/url]

elakin wrote:i'm lazy and don't often take the time to get out a stone and sharpen my knives, so i love my sabatier carbon steel knives.

the carbon steel is harder, even, than the various molybednium alloys that your henkels, wustofs, and globals employ, so once it's got an edge, it lasts a very long time. i have them sharpened once a year or so by the guy who shows up at my farmer's market with his wheel. and they're usually not even dull by then, just not really *sharp*.

yes, they discolor. yes, they rust if allowed to sit wet. so what? are you buying knives because they look pretty or because they cut things well?

sabatiers are typical old-school european-style knives. the tang is kind of harsh, so if you use it a lot you'll get a callous on your finger. they're a bit thinner and more delicate than the germans (wustof, henkels) and not as thin and wispy as the japanese-style knives.

for me, they're perfect. i love working with them.

http://www.fantes.com/carbon.htm

I love my carbon steel knives, too. I wouldn't have thought to recommend them in this situation but you're right, they hold their edge extremely well and the discoloration is merely cosmetic. Rust, however, left unchecked can permanently damage or destroy the knife, so they do require a bit more maintenance than other blades.

=R=

Most of my newer knives were wedding presents that I did not like very much. I found good deals on estate sales and resale shops near my home and have found a variety for a good price. My favorites are a few chicago cutlery, henckel and sabatier. I found that the sabatier knives are very well balanced and felt good on the hand and were the better ones (mine are stainless steel). My favorite paring knife was made of carbon steel and stayed sharp longer. Regretfully, It was thrown away accidentally by some family member.

I love my Global knives. I like that they are lighter than German knives yet they are really well balanced. A lot of people don't like the metal "roundish" handles, but I like them just fine. Going to a store and testing a few out really the best idea though. Global's hold their edge a long time. I don't send my out to be professionally sharpened, I bought a 3 stone set of Japanese water-stones and sharpen them myself. I use a guide that keeps the knife at the proper angle when I sharpen, however it leaves some scuffs on the knife, which is fine with me.

Darren72 wrote:3. A utility knife is generally as long as a chef's knife, but is thinner and shorter.

It's the same length but shorter?

I'm not trying to pick apart your words, just trying to understand how it compares with the chef's knife that we're all familiar with, and what advantages it has.

brandon_w wrote:I love my Global knives. I like that they are lighter than German knives yet they are really well balanced. A lot of people don't like the metal "roundish" handles, but I like them just fine. Going to a store and testing a few out really the best idea though. Global's hold their edge a long time. I don't send my out to be professionally sharpened, I bought a 3 stone set of Japanese water-stones and sharpen them myself. I use a guide that keeps the knife at the proper angle when I sharpen, however it leaves some scuffs on the knife, which is fine with me.

Globals all the way. And they's good for the smaller hand. Also, if you hold them up to your ear(blade outward) and shake 'em you can hear the balancing sand shift.

You will require special sharpening equipment *shinkansen sharpener* I use one(and/or know how if you go with whetstone/steel)

I love my Globals

nsxtasy wrote:

Darren72 wrote:3. A utility knife is generally as long as a chef's knife, but is thinner and shorter.

It's the same length but shorter?

I'm not trying to pick apart your words, just trying to understand how it compares with the chef's knife that we're all familiar with, and what advantages it has.

Thanks - I should have written this more carefully. What I mean is that both may have blades that are 8" long (although you can get them in a variety of lengths and below I use a picture of an 8" chef's knife and a 6" sandwich knife).

What I meant by "shorter" is that if you measure the vertical distance from the slicing edge upwards, the chef's knife is probably one and half inches, while the utility knife is probably 3/4".

An 8" chef's knife:


A 6" utility knife:


So you can imagine holding the handle of the chef's knife with the sharp edge on the table, but your knuckles wouldn't touch the table. By contrast, if you held the utility knife, your knuckles would be on the table while the edge of the knife would not.

I have a utility knife, a vegetable knife (5" curved blade), and a hollow edge santoku knife, they all look really pretty on my wall when I use my chef's knife. I mean I use them sometimes, especially the santoku, but really I just use the chef's knife. I do have a pairing knife that I use for smaller things sometimes.

The three you really need are chef's, serated, and pairing. The rest are fun to have though, if you like collecting knifes. You should see my pocket knife collection...

brandon_w wrote:I have a utility knife, a vegetable knife (5" curved blade), and a hollow edge santoku knife, they all look really pretty on my wall when I use my chef's knife. I mean I use them sometimes, especially the santoku, but really I just use the chef's knife. I do have a pairing knife that I use for smaller things sometimes.

The three you really need are chef's, serated, and pairing. The rest are fun to have though, if you like collecting knifes. You should see my pocket knife collection...

LOL

I have to say that I use my boning knives fairly often, too. Especially in making charcuterie, it's nice to have a really sharp, relatively narrow, flexible blade at your disposal. And I love my open-sided cheese knife, too. It's great for cutting really soft foods without mushing them. And I love my serrated knives . . .

=R=

I agree: cutting a bagel or a crusty bread is painful without a serrated blade.

Someone at NW Cutlery steered me to this wonderful, $23, 10.25" bread knife:



http://www.northwesterncutlery.net/Fibr ... Knife.html

I much prefer the long, curved blade on this to that on my Wusthof bread knife.

More reviews of this knife at Amazon

Darren72 wrote:I agree: cutting a bagel or a crusty bread is painful without a serrated blade.

Someone at NW Cutlery steered me to this wonderful, $23, 10.25" bread knife:



http://www.northwesterncutlery.net/Fibr ... Knife.html

I much prefer the long, curved blade on this to that on my Wusthof bread knife.

More reviews of this knife at Amazon

Yes, my stamped Forschner bread knife (similar to the one pictured above, if not an exact match) vastly outperforms more expensive models I happen to have owned and used.

=R=

I have been more than pleased with the Cutco Cutlery set I have had for probably 12 years. I cook a lot at home but certainly not on the magnitude of even a small cafe. I decided not to pursue the professional level Wustof et al and go with Cutco. You can probably find a rep or a show here:

http://www.cutco.com/company/fairsShows.jsp

I started with the French chef's knife, a small paring knife, a trimmer, and a short serrated slicer. Over time, I've added a large paring knife, long serrated slicer, a shorter chef's knife with what I call a ridged blade (not really serrated but kind of and it plows through semi-frozen meat and veggies great), plus poultry shears and a cheese knife that does a marvelous job.

The downside (for me anyway) is that they are not inexpensive and you have to buy them through a Cutco rep (kinda like Amway). Our rep is a friend so we get good service including free annual sharpening. The blades really hold an edge well and I try to keep them in good shape with a steel after each use.

I think it's also nice to have a good carving set for holidays and such. I enjoy carving the standing rib roast, turkey or ham for my family and getting out the set is part of the whole performance!

Good luck with your search - half the fun is in the hunt!

Davooda

Darrne72 wrote:There are four main knives most cooks use:

1. A chef's knife, usually 8 inches. Also called a cook's knife.
2. A 3-4 inch pairing knife
3. A 6-8 inch utility, sandwich, or flexible knife
4. A serrated bread knife.

This may be covered in your line item 3, but with different names. I get a lot of service out my boning knife.

My serrated bread knife has a blade over 10 inches long. It is really useful when trimming the crust off a loaf of bread. The length allows me to do it all at once.

My Dad once brought me a present from Switzerland: a knife with a very jagged edge that is supposed to cut through frozen food. I have never used it in 20 years.

Regards,

lots of good advice in this thread.

Rust, however, left unchecked can permanently damage or destroy the knife, so they do require a bit more maintenance than other blades.

this is true, i suppose, although i never considered wiping the knife off and putting it back in the block "maintenance".

but that's just me. my wife routinely drives me nuts by putting a 'dirty' knife in the sink and leaving it there until she's ready to 'wash up'. WIPE IT OFF AND PUT IT AWAY, IT TAKES FIVE SECONDS!

maybe it's just me, but i'm not comfortable with sharp knives sitting at the bottom of the sink or in the to-be washed pile just waiting for someone to cut themselves on. that just seems like you're asking for trouble.


i also have a bunch of knives, but rarely use anything but my 10" chef knife, the serrated, or my cheese knife that has holes in it. occasionally i'll use my granton slicer or my boning knife. like maybe six times a year.

my wife, of course, uses a steak knife regardless of what she's cutting. grrrrrr....

and that serrated forschner pictured above is indeed a great value. i have a $100-or so wustof serrated at home, so i bought one of those $25 forschners to take to work and it's just fine. no need to spend tons of money on a serrated knife.

My wife and I attended a cooking demonstration at Flavour in Forest Park on New Year's Eve. The chef there was using a ceramic knife made by Kyocera. She said she been impressed with them so far, although, they are alittle more fragile that steel and they recommend not to use them for slicing meat with bones. The sales line is that these are 5 times sharper and hold an edge 10 times longer than traditional knives.

I bought a 7" chef knife for $100 and have used it a few times so far. It's definitely the sharpest knife I've used in a long time and it's significantly lighter than my Henckel knives. The downside is that to get it sharpened, I'll have to send it in to Kyocera rather than go some place local. If it stays sharp as long as I was told it would, this won't be that much of an inconvenience.

tomsullyjr wrote:My wife and I attended a cooking demonstration at Flavour in Forest Park on New Year's Eve. The chef there was using a ceramic knife made by Kyocera. She said she been impressed with them so far, although, they are alittle more fragile that steel and they recommend not to use them for slicing meat with bones. The sales line is that these are 5 times sharper and hold an edge 10 times longer than traditional knives.

I bought a 7" chef knife for $100 and have used it a few times so far. It's definitely the sharpest knife I've used in a long time and it's significantly lighter than my Henckel knives. The downside is that to get it sharpened, I'll have to send it in to Kyocera rather than go some place local. If it stays sharp as long as I was told it would, this won't be that much of an inconvenience.

I own one and it's become a novelty for me more than anything else. Ming Tsai used to recommend them during his FTV days and he may still. I personally find it too light and somewhat hard to control. I mainly use it to cut fresh greens and herbs, when discoloration might otherwise occur with the use of a metal blade.

I recommend sending it back to Kyocera for sharpening every 2 years unless you use it with great frequency. I believe that they used to sharpen them for free, but now I think they charge a nominal fee for it.

Yes, it is sharp but don't drop it or your knife will instantly transform into a puzzle. And be careful not to let n00bs in your kitchen use it. These knives look pretty benign because of their non-metallic blades but they are very sharp, and therefore unusually dangerous in the hands of the uninformed. They're also fairly easy to damage, which is another good reason to keep them away from the inexperienced.

=R=

Just found this thread. I second the suggestion to always buy the best tools (knives, pans, workshop, whatever) you can afford. You will spend less and be more satisfied in the long run.

My Henckels knives are now over 25 years old, and still in virtually mint condition. I got them back before you could find them in fancy cooking stores everywhere, and there was only one style to choose from. They have some better now, mostly handles for restaurant use that will withstand dishwashing, but the knives themselves have changed little.

Do be cautious, as all of the good knife companies now make cheaper lines. There is a huge difference between the $80 Henckels knife from Germany, the $40 one from Spain, and the $20 one from China. In a moment of insanity, I bought one of the Chinese knives, and now want to replace it with one of the real German ones.

I didn't notice if any one has mentioned the ceramic knives now available. A few years ago we got a pair from Kyocera. These are absolutely amazing. They are brittle, so you have to be careful with them (don't drop them, don't cut anything with a bone in it, and don't use them to cut cheese), but you won't find a sharper knife on this planet. The only material harder than these knives, and the only thing that will sharpen them is diamond. One of the first things I did with mine was to slice a kiwi paper thin. So thin that the seeds tore the slices.

I recommend that you be very certain you want to own and care for a true Japanese blade, or a ceramic blade, for that matter, before you purchase one. Yes, they are very sharp, and will hold an edge nicely for a time...but not for the life of the knife. You WILL have to get these things sharpened, and there are few who can do it for you. If you try to do it yourself, you will likely damage your blade. You pay a LOT of money for a Japanese knife...they need to be sharpened by someone who really knows what they're doing. We sharpen out here in the Western suburbs, http://www.mysharpener.netand at this time we refer all our Japanese knife customers to Dave Martell...you do have to ship the knives to him, but that is what you have to be prepared to do if you're going to buy these guys! Visit his website www.japaneseknifesharpening.com and READ up on the blades. It's an investment, and you need to inform yourself fully BEFORE you plunk down your money at Sur Le Table! They are really pushing these knives these days, but you can't just draw these across a machine to sharpen them. We are studying up on the whetstone technique, but still won't touch these knives until we REALLY know how to give you back the blade you purchased. Anyone other than an expert on these specialty knives can't do that, and we wouldn't do that to someone who'd spent that much money on the blade.

If you can afford them, I love Wusthoffs and Henckels. They perform expertly in the kitchen, and sharpen like a dream, and sharpening for them is way more readily available. If you're on a tighter budget, Martha Stewart Everyday from K-Mart have the same look, feel, and heft of Wusthoff...the steel is from China, so is not as strong as the German steel, but they are an AWESOME knife. I have both...Wusthoffs and MSE's...and I'm not kidding, you can't tell much of a difference. The MSE will need sharpening a little bit more often, but not much. It's a well-kept secret, I guess, but I love them!

There's a sale on Kyocera ceramic knives on Open Sky (yup, recommended by Ming Tsai), so I dutifully went to the http://www.japaneseknifesharpening.com website to read up. But Kyocera isn't listed as one of the makers. Does that mean that don't qualify as "special Japanese knives and need to be sharpened as such"?

It's possible this guy just doesn't do ceramic knives.

In any case, Kyocera will sharpen the knife for $10.
http://www.kyoceraadvancedceramics.com/ ... /warranty/

I believe that sharpening ceramic knives is fundamentally different from sharpening steel knives (in the sense that the sharpening medium is different). Because of the hardness of ceramic, you need (obviously) something harder to sharpen, i.e. diamond. Not sure how much diamond sharpeners cost, though I believe Kyocera themselves actually sell one.

My experience with the Kyocera ceramic knives is that Kyocera sharpens them and that they cannot be sharpened by conventional means. You send them in and they sharpen them and send them back. This used to be free but I believe it now costs $10.

=R=

This article is almost 6(!) years old now but I still have it bookmarked because I enjoy the whole website. It was sent to me by a friend when I was asking about knives. May be informative for those wondering what kind of knife to get.

http://www.cookingforengineers.com/arti ... ives-Rated

I bought a 4 star Henckel Zwilling knife set (plus a few extra pieces) 25 years ago for around $300. I knew they would last if properly taken care of and professionally sharpened. Alas my sharpener is telling me a few knives should be retired as they no longer can be sharpened. I thought about replacing a few pieces but the price has really gone up. Then I saw an ad for a 12 piece set of J.A.'Henckels International Statement" triple riveted for $100. Another store is offering "J.A. Henckels International Silvercrop" 14 piece set (includes shears and block) which does not have the rivets for $80. I know that these can not be the same quality as my 4 star but since my family now uses (and abuses) my knives can anyone help me decide? Interestingly, I am the only one who likes to use the large chef knives as hubby likes to cut anything and everything with the smaller knives. I don't need the block, steel and scissors which are usually included in these sets.And what ever happened to Zwillings? Any input would be most appreciated. Thank you.

I'd suggest taking your set to Northwestern Cutlery for an evaluation before ditching them--they can almost certainly restore the blades even if your home sharpener can't--and if not, I'm sure they could guide you to the purchase of a suitable replacement.

As for getting an idea of the quality of the sets you're looking at, I'd start with amazon's comments section and go from there. If you google the set, I'd bet you'd get plenty of evaluation info, if no one here happens to have them.

I agree that a trip to Northwestern Cutlery is a wise move before ditching your current knives.

However, if you need new knives, it sounds like you'll want forged knives (not stamped) that have a full tang that runs all the way through the handle. I'd advise against a set but yes, it is a more economical way to go. You'll probably end up with a couple of knives you never use and some that may not feel great in your hand. On that note, I highly recommend trying them out in person because unless you're buying an exact replacement for something you already own, you'll want to check out the weight, balance, amount of rock on the blade, etc.

I was at Sur La Table in Northbrook Court the other day and learned that they have very large selection of knives in the store. You can try any of them out right there on the spot, which is very convenient. For the major producers like Henckels, Wustoff and the like, there really isn't any substantial discounting off retail price so you might not be paying too much if you buy them at SLT. However, if you find something there you like, you may find them online and avoid sales tax (and shipping).

For some really great information about knives, I highly recommend reading Chad Ward's An Edge in the Kitchen. It's a massively informative and entertaining read. You'll come out of it with tremendous understanding of how to identify knives that are best for your needs, preferences and budget.

=R=