Because pizza rustica is a mostly a Roman thing. And nobody worldwide thinks of "pizza rustica" as the main defintion of pizza, hence its status as something in the minority, the extreme minority. How many pizza rustica stands exist in Italy or worldwide serving this tomato-less pizza? They are in the extreme minority. I done arguing about what a pizza is nonsense.

RiverWester wrote:All I ever said is that bacon on pizza is non-existent and pancetta is very rare. That's all I said.

Actually, here is what you said:

RiverWester wrote::shock: They don't even have bacon & cheese in Italy.

That's why I commented that I thought this to be a very peculiar fact. As far as Mike G having bacon on a pizza at Spacca Napoli, I would hardly think that not having a bacon/pancetta pizza on an online menu is enough reason to question the veracity of his posted experience.

Dmnkly wrote:If you simply don't like Spacca Napoli's cheese and bacon pizza (I don't believe Mike even specified whether it was American bacon or pancetta), just say so. It's a perfectly intelligent and valid opinion that's shared by many. But if you're going to call it out because of its inauthenticity, I'd like to know on what basis you state its inauthenticity as fact.

I just checked SN's website and they don't even have bacon/pancetta on their menu, so MikeG must be mistaken. See there?

Inauthentic even at SN.

I didn't say MikeG was BS'ing but that he probably is mistaken.

Smoked pork and potato pizza, Spacca Napoli, taken November 18, 2006.

I knew it wasn't pancetta. That's used mostly for cooking. Thanks MikeG.

I bet that could've used some tomato-sauce!!

SN appears to be going California Pizza Kitchen or American "gourmet" now.

RiverWester wrote:Because pizza rustica is a mostly a Roman thing. And nobody worldwide thinks of "pizza rustica" as the main defintion of pizza, hence its status as something in the minority, the extreme minority. How many pizza rustica stands exist in Italy or worldwide serving this tomato-less pizza? They are in the extreme minority. I done arguing about what a pizza is nonsense.

You know, that's funny, RW, because I've had pizza rustica in Rome...

...and Florence, and Venice, and Milan, and Siena, and Pisa, some others I won't name because I don't specifically remember having it there though I know it's common, and, believe it or not, Naples.

So instead of telling me again that I'm wrong, how about answering my question and explaining to me on what basis you're right rather than simply saying so?

RiverWester wrote:And nobody worldwide thinks of "pizza rustica" as the main defintion of pizza...

Did you REALLY just suggest that what constitutes Italian pizza is defined by everybody in the world except the Italians?

REALLY?

That was also 2006, not the one under discussion, posted merely to prove that the unimaginable-- pork in a Neapolitan-style pizzeria-- had in fact happened.

As for the one I had a couple of weeks ago, I never said it was pancetta, you did. I do not frankly know what specific pork product it was, as it was a special, and described merely as "bacon" by a server who was probably tired of explaining what "pancetta" or "lardons" or whatever was. My belief? It was sliced thinly. It was described as bacon. Thus it was probably, but not definitely, pancetta.

What is it about pizza threads?

Dmnkly wrote:

RiverWester wrote:And nobody worldwide thinks of "pizza rustica" as the main defintion of pizza...

Did you REALLY just suggest that what constitutes Italian pizza is defined by everybody in the world except the Italians?

REALLY?

Dude, the only pizza in Italy that's DOC (Italian term) is Naples pizza. Not pizza rustica. Still, most pizza rustica has tomato sauce.

RiverWester wrote:I knew it wasn't pancetta. That's used mostly for cooking. Thanks MikeG.

I bet that could've used some tomato-sauce!!

SN appears to be going California Pizza Kitchen or American "gourmet" now.

For the record, RW, one of my very favorite types of pizza in Italy, which I've had in all of the cities I mention above, is... get ready for this... potatoes, pork sausage and rosemary. And no tomato!

California pizza indeed!

Dmnkly wrote:

RiverWester wrote:I knew it wasn't pancetta. That's used mostly for cooking. Thanks MikeG.

I bet that could've used some tomato-sauce!!

SN appears to be going California Pizza Kitchen or American "gourmet" now.

For the record, RW, one of my very favorite types of pizza in Italy, which I've had in all of the cities I mention above, is... get ready for this... potatoes, pork sausage and rosemary. And no tomato!

California pizza indeed!

That places you in the minority for sure. Also, smoked pork and no tomato is not common in Naples.

RiverWester wrote:

Dmnkly wrote:

RiverWester wrote:I knew it wasn't pancetta. That's used mostly for cooking. Thanks MikeG.

I bet that could've used some tomato-sauce!!

SN appears to be going California Pizza Kitchen or American "gourmet" now.

For the record, RW, one of my very favorite types of pizza in Italy, which I've had in all of the cities I mention above, is... get ready for this... potatoes, pork sausage and rosemary. And no tomato!

California pizza indeed!

That places you in the minority for sure.

In the world, probably. And yet, I remain authentic

Authenticity and quality are independent of each other.

I think (hope) the debate can be ended here.

At any rate, I've eaten there once. I concur, the crust was indeed delicious, but outside of the ample tomato sauce, the other toppings (cheese & sausage) seemed as though they fell on the pie by mistake. I.E., I certainly would have liked a bit more of each. I suppose that's just their style, but it's not for me.

Santander wrote:I think (hope) the debate can be ended here.

Yes. Really. I observe that this is a Coalfire thread. While we have gotten far afield understandably, how about returning the thread to Coalfire? You know, for "authenticity's" sake...

ogre wrote:At any rate, I've eaten there once. I concur, the crust was indeed delicious, but outside of the ample tomato sauce, the other toppings (cheese & sausage) seemed as though they fell on the pie by mistake. I.E., I certainly would have liked a bit more of each. I suppose that's just their style, but it's not for me.

ogre-

It's refreshing to hear some feedback on Coalfire. Thank you!

-The GP

Mike G wrote:As for the one I had a couple of weeks ago, I never said it was pancetta, you did. I do not frankly know what specific pork product it was, as it was a special, and described merely as "bacon" by a server who was probably tired of explaining what "pancetta" or "lardons" or whatever was. My belief? It was sliced thinly. It was described as bacon. Thus it was probably, but not definitely, pancetta.

It was guanciale. I ordered it (as an off-menu special) around the same time. It was my only disappointing pizza experience at SN. The potato clashed with the crust and it was just kind of dry.

LTH,

Had dinner at Coalfire around 8:30, full house, Steve Z and I got the last table, but service was very efficient and our Z Special (sausage and anchovy) right on target.

Z Special (Sausage and Anchovy) (12.19.07)


We also had a Margarita calzone, which I'm ambivalent about. The cheese heavy calzone seems out of proportion, but that may be the nature of the beast. While on their own I found the Margarita calzone slightly bland and the accompanying tomato sauce acidic, together they formed a nicely matched pair.

Margarita Calzone (12.19.07)




Enjoy,
Gary

Just to confirm one more time what everyone else has already said, I finally made it to Coal Fire - after all this time and its only a mile away from our house. As expected, pizza was exceptional. Light and crispy crust with light whar around the edges. Has a pepperoni and mushroom, prosciutto and onion, and white pizzas. Ingredients were all fresh and well selected. I was a particular fan of the pepperoni, much spicier than you normally get.

Service was quite efficient given the early complaints. They took our names down on a waiting list when we came in. Seated in about 20 minutes on a busy Friday night. Good if not great service, but the wiatress appeared quickly, took our orders, and in no time we were several pizzas on the table.

Personally, I still feel that Stop 50 in Michiana is the best pizza in the region, but Coal Fire is a close second.

I made my first trip to coalfire on Friday night after ignoring some really disgusting chinese food in chafing dishes at a political fundraiser. At least I know the candidate is not blowing my contribution on expensive chow

Anyway, i had a thoroughly enjoyable Pizza Margarita. Thin, just crisp enough with that coal-char along the edges. Perfect ratio of cheese to sauce and some very nice fresh basil. It was very pleasant.

However, the house salad was a most disgusting ensemble of greens and a few mushrooms bathed, and i mean bathed, in the house balsalmic vinnagrette. I like a nice salad with my pizza, this was sadly dissapointing. BTW I probably would of ordered the Caprese but the waited talked me out of it based on the his concerns with tomato quality this time of year. I wonder what the caprese looks like?

Most people have probably already read it, but I lol'd about an article in the new issue of TimeOut, which is about blogs, that had to do with Coal Fire and LTHForum. The writer suggests that the posts on here about Coal Fire ratcheted up their business and led to that initial service and refunds problem.

i<3pizza wrote:The writer suggests that the posts on here about Coal Fire ratcheted up their business and led to that initial service and refunds problem.

Yes, that was a very interesting week. You can read a lot of what was posted at the very beginning of this thread.

iblock9 wrote:I wonder what the caprese looks like?

Better, but not great. Five slices of tomato, topped with mozarella and a basil leaf, a little salt and pepper and olive oil. It was pre-prepared, not assembled when we ordered it, and apparently stored in the fridge. The plate, tomatoes, and mozarella all came to the table cold. You didn't miss much. Stick with the Pizza.

I know, I know. What the hell took us so long?

Life intrudes. But, after a lovely afternoon watching young children learn "circus arts" at Millenium Park, catching some ice sculptures and some experimental photography with the Bean, we wandered over to the Cultural Center. Spent some time raising our culture quotient and then, conveniently, it was time to eat. Finally!

The Lovely Dining Companion's verdict: "Better than Spacca Napoli." It depends on your tastes, of course. But I gotta say: what the hell took us so long? Jeez, is this pizza good!

LDC decided to reprise her Roman favorite, pizza bianca:



I decided, after way too much to-ing and fro-ing, on the Fiorentina (calabrese salami and red pepper):



Why does she think so and why am I inclined to agree? the crust. A bit more cooked and, of course, that's entirely in the palate of the beholder(s). It's a damn good thing that this place isn't in our neighborhood or I'd probably never come home (just kiddin', sweetheart )

Nothing earth-shattering to add to what has preceded us. Just our thanks and appreciation for really excellent food and a good price. Spacca wins (fairly easily) for "ambiance" and a broader menu but Coalfire wins a close race for pizza honors in our book.

Is there a corkage fee?

Carlywood wrote:Is there a corkage fee?

No.

Loved Coalfire and will be back.

Four of us split a caprese and house salad, and the White and Sausage pizzas.

It was hard to decide which one was better. I loved the saltiness of the the White, yet the sausage and tomato sauce were such a nice balance of flavors.

The crust was thin and crisp, perfectly cooked.

I questioned if we could finish them both, but it was done easily.

Service was on par and I liked that we we weren't rushed out.

BYOB with no corkage fee is a great deal. We paid $13 a piece.

Carlywood wrote:Loved Coalfire and will be back.

Four of us split a caprese and house salad, and the White and Sausage pizzas.

It was hard to decide which one was better. I loved the saltiness of the the White, yet the sausage and tomato sauce were such a nice balance of flavors.

The crust was thin and crisp, perfectly cooked.

I questioned if we could finish them both, but it was done easily.

Service was on par and I liked that we we weren't rushed out.

BYOB with no corkage fee is a great deal. We paid $13 a piece.

What did you end up bring to drink and were you happy with the choice?

Our friends brought a Syrah/Merlot blend. I can't remember the name of it, but I thought it was a nice pairing with the pizza.

Went last week with GF and friend. Had the meat pie and fiorentina pie. Both delicious. We shared a house salad, and unless you thoroughly enjoy the taste of vinegar, you should order the dressing on the side...drenchy-drench!

Otherwise, great. It was a Thu night and the place was full, warm and inviting. Service was warm and attentive.