I think the best thing about Safeway (Dominiks) and Ablerston's (Jewel Foods) attempting damn near monolopy is they have made places like Trader Joe's, Whole foods and many others convenient and affordable by comparison.

Wow try and say that sentence in one breath!

Sundaysous wrote:I think the best thing about Safeway (Dominiks) and Ablerston's (Jewel Foods) attempting damn near monolopy is they have made places like Trader Joe's, Whole foods and many others convenient and affordable by comparison.

Wow try and say that sentence in one breath!

How do you call Jewel/Dominicks a monopoly when they control less than 50% of the market? There are DOZENS of other options.

In comparison, Kroger's and Supervalu (Biggs) control 80% of the Cincinnati market. Schnuck's and Dierbergs have about 70% of the St. Louis market and so on.

Also, Jewel and Dominicks are downright cheap compared to Whole Foods.

jlawrence01 wrote:Also, Jewel and Dominicks are downright cheap compared to Whole Foods.

That's so true in so many ways ...

The Dominicks in Oak Park is rapidly going even more downhill!!! I can't believe Oak Parkers stand for such bad grocery stores (the Jewel is equally awful and so claustrophobic with it's super narrow aisles). We live "across the border" in Austin, and so, of course, have no grocery store on our side of Austin Ave. The Dominicks has awful produce, a terrible selection of many staples, absolutely awful meat, the frozen food cases are usually half-defrosted resulting in terribly freezer-burned products, baggers who put bottles of soda on top of boxes of berries, and a manager who never listens to my requests to re-stock products that they've either bizarrely discontinued (like the basic flavor of my favorite rice pilaf versus the wacky flavors) or things they are continually out of. One good thing--because of their horrible lack of planning, they are often out of plastic bags, forcing them to use paper (which ends up being better for the environment).

Thank god for Costco, my beloved farmers in central Illinois who now supply me with most of our meat (yes we have not one, but two, upright freezers in the basement and a vacuum sealer), my vegetable garden, and the occasional Whole Paycheck trip (looking forward to the Trader Joe's that will be opening).

JLawrence01 wrote:

"How do you call Jewel/Dominicks a monopoly when they control less than 50% of the market?"



I'm not trying to be a numbers "wonk", but the last figures that I saw attributed 44% of the market to Jewel, and 17% to Dominick's.

Presently, Jewel feels as if they were "the only game in town"---- and it will continue that way until Wal-Mart establishes a true presence in Chicago.

Ok I'll go look for the numbers but Safeway and Alberstons own more than a few supermarket chains nationwide. They have huge buying power and have over the last five years severely limited the brands on the shelves you see.

I guess my comparison to Whole Foods and the like was more akin to "Well I can go to the Jewel and buy stuff I don't like or go to Whole Foods, pay 10% to 15% more and get something edible."

FWIW, Albertson's was broken up, and Jewel is now owned by Supervalu.

Well I'll be damned, thanks for the Albertson's update.

Well, here's one thing I feel I should point out in Dominicks' defense: it seems to be the best place to buy wine. The prices with a Dominicks card are considerably better than without (or at other stores), and the 10% additional discount if you buy six makes their wine prices better than anywhere else around.

Nothing else comes to mind, but I do give them that.

Katie wrote:Well, here's one thing I feel I should point out in Dominicks' defense: it seems to be the best place to buy wine. The prices with a Dominicks card are considerably better than without (or at other stores), and the 10% additional discount if you buy six makes their wine prices better than anywhere else around.

Nothing else comes to mind, but I do give them that.

Cheaper than Trader Joe's or Costco?

The main thing I make a point of buying at Dominick's is tonic water. The Safeway brand is very good, as good as the national brands and much cheaper. I've also been trying some of Safeway's new Organics line.

I recommend the Italian sodas. I've tried blood orange and lemon and both were good. They look as if they might be produced by the same people who make Target's Archer Farms brand, although I find the taste subtly different. Archer Farms is slightly better, to my taste, but for some reason Target doesn't always stock these sodas (and it's impossible to get any information from anyone who works there about when or if they'll get more).

Given the choice of Dominick's or Jewel, I usually prefer Dominick's; it seems like the selection is better, particularly in things like produce. Since Cub Foods closed, these are the only supermarkets open after 10 p.m. unless I want to schlep to Meijer or Woodman's, so I do often have the choice of just Dominick's or Jewel.

As for Jewel, I will say that the other night I was on the Northwest Side and far away from any other open businesses with an increasingly desperate need to make a call of nature. The Jewel was open at 11:30 p.m., had an adequate public restroom to which a shelf stocker politely directed me and I was able to buy cat food on sale. So the big-box grocery stores do have their usefulness.

Katie wrote:Well, here's one thing I feel I should point out in Dominicks' defense: it seems to be the best place to buy wine. The prices with a Dominicks card are considerably better than without (or at other stores), and the 10% additional discount if you buy six makes their wine prices better than anywhere else around.

Nothing else comes to mind, but I do give them that.

You might also want to try Cost Plus World Market for their wine selection.

LAZ wrote:Cheaper than Trader Joe's or Costco?

jlawrence01 wrote:You might also want to try Cost Plus World Market for their wine selection.

Well, yes, at least in my experience, cheaper than all three of those. Trader Joe's has Chuck (can't remember if it's Two-Buck or Three-Buck), but the prices of other wines there don't motivate me to buy them. Same for Cost Plus World Market. Nice variety, but not exceptional prices. I usually do pick up a few bottles of wine when we go to Sam's or Costco, if I see something unusual, but the wine prices at either don't seem to me to be much of a deal. Except for a bottle of Santa Margherita at Sam's once for $15.99, which only seems like a deal, considering to what it usually goes for elsewhere.

I do buy wine at all those other places, but I don't think their prices are better than at Dominick's. At least, not in comparison to what you end up paying at Dominick's with the discount card plus the additional 10% off for six at a time.

But those are just my subjective recollections. Sometime I'll try to do a little more systematic comparison and post the results.

Yeah have to go with LAZ on that Jewel/Dominics being open past 10pm convenience. You find yourself needing say yeast at 6:am on Labor Day and guess who is not only open but has it?

Actually, I saw one of the most reprehensible food acts of late at the Jewel on Ashland. Walking by the milk case while searching for the soap aisle, I noticed that they were carrying Farmer's Creamery milk. I had just bought some at Whole Foods that morning so I had my receipt with me. Curious as to price, I opened the case to learn that they were carrying it for $9.00 for two. I had just purchased mine for $3.39 - now which one should be called Whole Paycheck?

MAG wrote:Actually, I saw one of the most reprehensible food acts of late at the Jewel on Ashland. Walking by the milk case while searching for the soap aisle, I noticed that they were carrying Farmer's Creamery milk. I had just bought some at Whole Foods that morning so I had my receipt with me. Curious as to price, I opened the case to learn that they were carrying it for $9.00 for two. I had just purchased mine for $3.39 - now which one should be called Whole Paycheck?

Nice find. I've also noticed that certain things are definitely cheaper at Whole Foods. The problem is that I never remember which products they are!

If you're comparing with Jewel or Dominicks, it's probably all of them.

I was just saying the other day that our grocery store choices have really gotten better in the last couple of years -- and I'm not counting Wal-Mart, SuperTarget, or Meijer in the mix.

I live in Aurora, and we have the new Caputo's at Rte 59 and 111th. Then there's Michael's at Rte 59 and Ogden. The new Cermak Market at Indian Trail and Lake Street. Woodman's in North Aurora. Fresh Market at Rickert & 75th (the old Bobak's ). Not to mention Succulent Fish, Casey's, Trader Joe's, and Cabernet Wine Shop at the strip mall at Gartner & Washington in Naperville. I hope they've broken ground for the new Whole Foods behind Home Depot at Rte 59 and 75th Street.

All in all, not captive to Jewel or Dominick's at all.

Let me just say, my local Dominick's just north of Foster and Lincoln avenues up in Lincoln Square/Ravenswood is a f*cking SHITHOLE. It is the armpit of hell. It is dirty, smelly, seedy, disgusting, repulsive, etc. The floors are ALWAYS dirty. I wouldn't be surprised to see rats rooming the floors (though I've yet to see it). Do not ever buy anything there that isn't pre-packaged in a bag, can, box, etc. Stay far, far away from the meats, poultry, etc.

I loathe the building, atmosphere, and especially the employees who take "I don't give a shit" to a new level each and every God-forsaken time I begrudgingly go out of slavery to convenience. If it were not for my local Mexican supermarket's (whose name escapes me right now) limited selection of these pre-packaged goods I would never even drive by the shithole that is my Dominick's.

What a shame, growing up in the NW burbs I remember D-micks being the creme-de-la-creme of the mass supermarkets.

This post really hit a nerve.

Bster

Was at D'nicks today picking up a few "desperation" items--eggs, milk, etc.

The past few times I've run in I've been in need of a red onion and a yellow onion. Mother of God, how hard is it to have some decent onions? Nearly all were half-rotten, dried-out looking, with weird little indentations. This has happened at least 3 times this summer that I can recall--is there some sort of onion blight that I was unaware of that's only affecting Dominick's onions? WF, Stanley's, TJs have all had decent onions as has the Strack and VanTils which I would've gone to instead--cept there's a branch of my bank in Dominick's. Curse them.

And, my Dominick's is the "fancy one" on Clybourn where all the SUV stroller Louis-Vuitton double-latte types seem to congregate.

Bster wrote:Let me just say, my local Dominick's just north of Foster and Lincoln avenues up in Lincoln Square/Ravenswood is a f*cking SHITHOLE.

That's the one I live a couple blocks away from. I thank heavens Harvestime (26xx Lawrence) is also walkable.

bananasandwiches wrote:Was at D'nicks today picking up a few "desperation" items--eggs, milk, etc.

Don't you mean "D'icks"?


I was at Target on Peterson yesterday picking up some pharmacy & shampoo stuff......and found myself buying stuff from their grocery because I DID NOT want to go to D'icks and by god it was cheaper, too!

bananasandwiches wrote:And, my Dominick's is the "fancy one" on Clybourn where all the SUV stroller Louis-Vuitton double-latte types seem to congregate.

Can we do dinner one day? This is my D'ick's too. But I generally go to the Strack and Van Til now.

I do, however, luuuurve the Starbucks inside the store, and am I remembering right - the carts have cupholders? It's an indulgence for me, since I rarely buy coffee that isn't beans in a bag.

leek wrote:

bananasandwiches wrote:And, my Dominick's is the "fancy one" on Clybourn where all the SUV stroller Louis-Vuitton double-latte types seem to congregate.

Can we do dinner one day? This is my D'ick's too. But I generally go to the Strack and Van Til now.

I do, however, luuuurve the Starbucks inside the store, and am I remembering right - the carts have cupholders? It's an indulgence for me, since I rarely buy coffee that isn't beans in a bag.

Absolutely, we can do dinner!

Yes, the carts have cupholders. I admit, in a weak moment about once every two months or so I also indulge in a Starbucks while wheeling my way through the store. Shameful, but true.

Hey, at least they don't have those little mini "kid carts" like they do at Trader Joes. If I had a nickel for everytime some 4 year old rammed me in the back of the legs while their mother/nanny/guardian smiled cluelessly at them, I'd have a butt ton of nickels. Yes, kids will be kids. Yes, kids do best in a store when occupied. No, kids should not be pushing carts, mini or otherwise, especially in Trader Joe's where there's barely enough room for the carts us grown folks are pushing. If you pay for the food, THEN you get to push the cart.

stepping off my soapbox now...

Darren72 wrote:

MAG wrote:Actually, I saw one of the most reprehensible food acts of late at the Jewel on Ashland. Walking by the milk case while searching for the soap aisle, I noticed that they were carrying Farmer's Creamery milk. I had just bought some at Whole Foods that morning so I had my receipt with me. Curious as to price, I opened the case to learn that they were carrying it for $9.00 for two. I had just purchased mine for $3.39 - now which one should be called Whole Paycheck?

Nice find. I've also noticed that certain things are definitely cheaper at Whole Foods. The problem is that I never remember which products they are!

In my experience, the things that are more expensive at Dominick's and Jewel than at Whole Foods tend to be the organic or all natural goods, including milk, eggs, frozen goods, cereals, crackers, chips and other dry goods that both types of stores carry. I have always assumed that this is because Whole Foods buys higher volumes of these goods, meaning that WFM can offer products from Earthbound Farms, Cascadian Farms, Back to Nature, Kashi, etc. cheaper than Dominick's and Jewel. With something like the Farmer's Creamery Milk and other perishables, it may also be that demand is harder for the Dominick's and Jewels of the world to judge, so the mark-up reflects the greater amounts that may go to waste (although I doubt it would justify that egregious of a mark-up).

On the other hand, things like Cheerios, Quaker Oats, or other mass-market items are more expensive, in my experience, at WFM than at Jewel/Dominick's. The other things that are often more expensive at WFM in many (but not all) cases are store brands -- like the store brand cheeses (not the charge by weight stuff but the prepackaged bricks of cheddar and other cheeses, bags of shredded cheeses, etc.). Of course, that's not an apple to apples comparison, and I would guess that in many cases the WFM store brand of certain items is of a higher quality than the Jewel or Dominick's store brand, but I've not conducted any tests. Finally (and putting aside any distinctions of organic, all natural, etc.), my experience has been that in most non-perishable product categories, the cheapest offering at a Jewel or Dominick's will be cheaper (either regular price or as a result of preferred card savings) than the cheapest offering at Whole Foods. This helps reinforce the whole "whole paycheck" meme ("I couldn't find a box of crackers for under $4!!!").

Do realize that the Big 3 Supermarket chains (Krogers, Safeway, Supervalu) individually buy more organic foods than Whole Foods does. They can negotiate deals as good as Whole Foods.

Also, most of the "organic" brands are owned by the large corporations that produce all of the non-organic brands and have relationships with the Big 3.

Why would any supermarket chain DISCOUNT an "organic" product? It is so obvious that people will pay RIDICULOUS margins (a minimum of 2-3x nonorganic) for the products. Why would any retailer - besides WalMart -upset the apple cart?

Talked to a couple of salesmen for an organic coop that will remain unnamed. To quote one, "we never expected that the consumers would STILL be willing to pay the prices for our product that they are paying."

jlawrence01 wrote:Do realize that the Big 3 Supermarket chains (Krogers, Safeway, Supervalu) individually buy more organic foods than Whole Foods does. They can negotiate deals as good as Whole Foods.

Interesting to know that, which obviously kind of puts the lie to my assumption about pricing differences being based on cost in certain categories. I did recall reading somewhere that Walmart is, or is quickly becoming, the biggest purchaser of organic foods in the U.S., but was not aware of the volumes of the "Big 3." I suppose it makes sense based on sheer numbers of stores, though, even if each store has a smaller selection of product than the average Whole Foods. Good point also about ownership of organic brands. I was aware of Kashi/Kellogg, Back to Nature/Kraft, etc. but hadn't thought about how those relationships might influence overall buying trends and prices.

All of that said, I think my observations about pricing at the different types of stores (in terms of what is more costly at each) stand, just not for the reasons I had initially surmised.

jlawrence01 wrote:Do realize that the Big 3 Supermarket chains (Krogers, Safeway, Supervalu) individually buy more organic foods than Whole Foods does. They can negotiate deals as good as Whole Foods.

Also, most of the "organic" brands are owned by the large corporations that produce all of the non-organic brands and have relationships with the Big 3.

Why would any supermarket chain DISCOUNT an "organic" product? It is so obvious that people will pay RIDICULOUS margins (a minimum of 2-3x nonorganic) for the products. Why would any retailer - besides WalMart -upset the apple cart?

Talked to a couple of salesmen for an organic coop that will remain unnamed. To quote one, "we never expected that the consumers would STILL be willing to pay the prices for our product that they are paying."

jlawrence01, I've read this a few times now and I cannot understand what you are trying to say. Are you disputing the earlier claim that Jewel/Dominicks is more expensive than Whole Foods for some products? If so, that's a statement of fact that is easily verified one way or the other. If not, what's the take-away point here?

Interesting quote, jlawrence!!!



I take it Trader Joe's has the best prices on organics all-around.

Trader Joe's seems to have the best prices on Kashi cereals, anyway. Better than Costco, WF, Strack, Dominick's (going by weight).

Darren72 wrote:

jlawrence01 wrote:Do realize that the Big 3 Supermarket chains (Krogers, Safeway, Supervalu) individually buy more organic foods than Whole Foods does. They can negotiate deals as good as Whole Foods.

Also, most of the "organic" brands are owned by the large corporations that produce all of the non-organic brands and have relationships with the Big 3.

Why would any supermarket chain DISCOUNT an "organic" product? It is so obvious that people will pay RIDICULOUS margins (a minimum of 2-3x nonorganic) for the products. Why would any retailer - besides WalMart -upset the apple cart?

Talked to a couple of salesmen for an organic coop that will remain unnamed. To quote one, "we never expected that the consumers would STILL be willing to pay the prices for our product that they are paying."

jlawrence01, I've read this a few times now and I cannot understand what you are trying to say. Are you disputing the earlier claim that Jewel/Dominicks is more expensive than Whole Foods for some products? If so, that's a statement of fact that is easily verified one way or the other. If not, what's the take-away point here?

I read jlawrence's point as being that the mark-ups on organics are quite high and there's no incentive to bring prices in line with costs (in terms of being proportional to the mark-up on non-organic goods) because current demand is relatively inelastic. I think his point was generally incidental to the discussion about which type of store has higher prices; I am guessing the mark-up on organics is really high at both natural foods stores and traditional big groceries. But I may be wrong; he can speak for himself.

I'm admittedly sick of the lack of grocery stores around. I live in the western suburbs so my choices are probably different from the north side or such, but it's a Jewel or Dominick's every twenty feet and few satisfactory products between them. Meat prices are outrageous and only the basics are worth purchasing there. As much as I like Whole Foods, their selection isn't always the best outside of produce. Von Strack I've not heard of, and I've tried Caputo's market down in Plainfield. Are there any other larger, consistent chains worth looking out for? I know about Casey's Foods for meat, but past that...