ronnie_suburban wrote:A fascinating take on the best path forward . . . [there are many hyperlinks embedded in the original text, which I did not reproduce here. If you want access to them, please click the link at the bottom of this post to go directly to the source]

Thanks for sharing Ronnie. I hope people are reading this. The restaurant industry engages with many other predatory industries and ends up embodying each of them. Impossible to fix "from the inside", even the most well intentioned people in the business need legislative support from elected officials. One of my favorite of Jenny Holzer's aphorisms is "All things are delicately interconnected" and I think Tunde's piece shows how many of those things are woven together.

Feel free to move this to another board, but I was just on the city of Evanston coronavirus website, and starting today 6/1, you are going to have to start feeding the meters in Evanston. The first week they are just giving a warning to people but starting next week they are going to start issuing tickets. The parking enforcement people are really quick to ticket you, and you have to feed the meters until 9:00pm Monday through Saturday, and I think 1:00-9:00 on Sundays. You can park in one of the city garages in downtown Evanston for free the first hour. Hope this helps, Nancy

Desperate To Open, Restaurant Owners Call For Faster Permitting Process To Open Sidewalk Cafes, Patios

https://blockclubchicago.org/2020/06/03 ... es-patios/

Even if they were to open 100% today, many people will not eat out until the virus is not an issue. My GF has a compromised immune system so neither of us will be dining out.

Ram4 wrote:Even if they were to open 100% today, many people will not eat out until the virus is not an issue. My GF has a compromised immune system so neither of us will be dining out.

I agree. My guess is that some additional revenue stream, even if it's not at pre-pandemic levels, will help relieve some of financial pressure being faced by operators and their employees, and that's a good thing. However, the belief that everything is going to snap back to normal once restrictions are lifted is grossly naive. There are plenty of data that show a significant drop-off in restaurant dining in many areas of the country before any restrictions were put in place. Most people are simply going to continue to take care of themselves and avoid endangering those around them, regardless of whether they're "allowed" to dine out or not. But baby steps, right?

=R=

Ram4 wrote:Even if they were to open 100% today, many people will not eat out until the virus is not an issue. My GF has a compromised immune system so neither of us will be dining out.

I am in the same boat here in Arizona.

The governor has lifted restrictions on restaurants. The local restaurant group has been very vocally opposing restrictions from day one has agreed to follow health department rules on proper spacing and the like and that staff would be wearing masks. However, when friends have entered their three restaurants, they have reported that there is no spacing AND no masks on employees.

Why take the risk? The food at home is better now that I am fully stocked up.

A restaurant in the Netherlands is using creepy robot waiters for social distancing

https://www.theverge.com/2020/5/31/2127 ... g-pandemic

Hi- Na Korn in Evanston has a gofundme page, and has raised over $12,000. They are using the money to deliver free meals to various entities such as Connections for the Homeless, Reba Place and University of Chicago hospital. It also gives their employees a chance to get paid for preparing the meals.

Yo Fresh which is a frozen yogurt place on 635 Chicago Avenue in the strip mall where Walgreens is, also has a gofundme page where they have raised approximately $17,000, and C & W Market and ice cream place near ETHS at 1901 Church, has a gofundmepage too and has raised over $29,000. They say since the high school closed and everybody started staying home, their business has gone down 85%.

While it is not yet a post- COVID-19 world, the crowd (and it was a crowd) at Maple & Ash were certainly acting like it, with the full cooperation of the restaurant.

The packed patio was not set up for maximum seating, but had far less than six feet between tables. The inside bar was mobbed with non masked patrons, at least the employees were masked.

Apparently younger white sophisticated well off urbanites are immune from the disease, or at least the fear of it.

scottsol wrote:While it is not yet a post- COVID-19 world, the crowd (and it was a crowd) at Maple & Ash were certainly acting like it, with the full cooperation of the restaurant.

The packed patio was not set up for maximum seating, but had far less than six feet between tables. The inside bar was mobbed with non masked patrons, at least the employees were masked.

Apparently younger white sophisticated well off urbanites are immune from the disease, or at least the fear of it.

Or maybe they think that after seeing 5 straight days of tens of thousands of people protesting and rioting shoulder to shoulder in just about every city in America that it really doesn't matter anymore if you sit 6 feet from someone else or 2 feet? As far as I'm concerned social distancing ended this week.

shakes wrote:

scottsol wrote:Apparently younger white sophisticated well off urbanites are immune from the disease, or at least the fear of it.

Or maybe they think that after seeing 5 straight days of tens of thousands of people protesting and rioting shoulder to shoulder in just about every city in America that it really doesn't matter anymore if you sit 6 feet from someone else or 2 feet? As far as I'm concerned social distancing ended this week.

Most likely people who are going out at this point have decided that the level of risk is acceptable for them, knowing that restaurants aren't likely to be adept or diligent when it comes to implementing social distancing measures. I think the rest is unrelated, since the two groups (diners and protestors) aren't necessarily linked.

=R=

ronnie_suburban wrote:

shakes wrote:Or maybe they think that after seeing 5 straight days of tens of thousands of people protesting and rioting shoulder to shoulder in just about every city in America that it really doesn't matter anymore if you sit 6 feet from someone else or 2 feet? As far as I'm concerned social distancing ended this week.

Most likely people who are going out at this point have decided that the level of risk is acceptable for them, knowing that restaurants aren't likely to be adept or diligent when it comes to implementing social distancing measures. I think the rest is unrelated, since the two groups (diners and protestors) aren't necessarily linked.

=R=

We went out for the first time two nights ago, expecting that we would bail if (a) there were lines (Plateia does not take reservations), (b) the tables were too close, (c) staff did not appear to be taking protection seriously.

Happily, it fit our criteria and after a little nervousness at this new thing, we had a delightful meal, we'd really missed being served and having beautiful presentation of food be someone else's task.

We're both science trained, this was a cautious first step. I don't see us going back to 2-3 times dinners out per week like we did previously any time soon, but it was a serious relief valve.

shakes wrote:

scottsol wrote:While it is not yet a post- COVID-19 world, the crowd (and it was a crowd) at Maple & Ash were certainly acting like it, with the full cooperation of the restaurant.

The packed patio was not set up for maximum seating, but had far less than six feet between tables. The inside bar was mobbed with non masked patrons, at least the employees were masked.

Apparently younger white sophisticated well off urbanites are immune from the disease, or at least the fear of it.

Or maybe they think that after seeing 5 straight days of tens of thousands of people protesting and rioting shoulder to shoulder in just about every city in America that it really doesn't matter anymore if you sit 6 feet from someone else or 2 feet? As far as I'm concerned social distancing ended this week.

It must be something else because none of the guests were looting the place.

Looked at a local place's posted policies and standards, and honestly it seemed thorough and reasonable and yet such a PIA that I'd just as soon stay home or take out. Many of my favorite places aren't really dine-in places, anyway. It's remarkable how little we still know about this virus, or, related, how much we are operating on certain sets of constantly changing assumptions adopted (or not) differently by different states, cities, counties, countries, people ... ugh, always the people.

Vitesse98 wrote:Looked at a local place's posted policies and standards, and honestly it seemed thorough and reasonable and yet such a PIA that I'd just as soon stay home or take out. Many of my favorite places aren't really dine-in places, anyway. It's remarkable how little we still know about this virus, or, related, how much we are operating on certain sets of constantly changing assumptions adopted (or not) differently by different states, cities, counties, countries, people ... ugh, always the people.

Following up on a recent PR blast about their newly-erected dining tent, EJ's Place in Skokie sent out an email today with the subject line A message regarding our tent... Apparently a picture of the tent in an earlier email made it appear as if the tent was fully enclosed, which seems to have led to a bunch of concerns and questions . . .


Crazy effing times.

=R=

scottsol wrote:The packed patio was not set up for maximum seating, but had far less than six feet between tables. The inside bar was mobbed with non masked patrons, at least the employees were masked.

Well, there's an obvious problem with asking people to wear masks while they are eating and drinking. Which is why a lot of people still won't be out dining or drinking for the foreseeable future. Lack of distancing, which is shameful, just compounds the problem.

shakes wrote:Or maybe they think that after seeing 5 straight days of tens of thousands of people protesting and rioting shoulder to shoulder in just about every city in America that it really doesn't matter anymore if you sit 6 feet from someone else or 2 feet?

They can think that - and the coronavirus will be happy to change some of their minds. [EDITED TO ADD:] As it's already starting to do.

Mayor Lightfoot wisely recommended that anyone protesting in Chicago without distancing or masking get tested for coronavirus. (Governor Cuomo of New York did the same.) That's a good reminder for anyone with half a brain that the disease is still spreading, still averaging 1,300 new cases each day in Illinois alone. And it's still pretty darn awful for many people, hitting people of all ages and races, not just those with complicating risk factors.

Well, there's an obvious problem with asking people to wear masks while they are eating and drinking.

I don’t know that the bar was open for service (which would have been improper) but patrons were being allowed to congregate there - which is the fault of Maple, and nobody was masked- which is the responsibility of Maple and the patrons.

For the diners, the proper procedure is to be masked while waiting for the food. In any case, the masking would have been far less important if the tables had been spaced properly.

If businesses want to be allowed more freedom, they need to act more responsibly as the clientele will apparently not do it on their own.

nsxtasy wrote:They can think that - and the coronavirus will be happy to change some of their minds.

I agree. And also with Scott's point along the same lines.

If a new outbreak occurs because of the demonstrations (and I support the demonstrations, and hope it doesn't), it won't be confined to those who demonstrated. "Community spread" will put everyone at risk, including those dining out who never demonstrated. The demonstrators live in every neighborhood, and go home to those neighborhoods, where, if they are asymptomatic, they could easily communicate the virus.

riddlemay wrote:

nsxtasy wrote:They can think that - and the coronavirus will be happy to change some of their minds.

I agree. And also with Scott's point along the same lines.

If a new outbreak occurs because of the demonstrations (and I support the demonstrations, and hope it doesn't), it won't be confined to those who demonstrated. "Community spread" will put everyone at risk, including those dining out who never demonstrated. The demonstrators live in every neighborhood, and go home to those neighborhoods, where, if they are asymptomatic, they could easily communicate the virus.

Exactly. And that's why it doesn't matter if we social distance anymore. It's over. The protests ended it. There's no point having 20 people social distancing in a restaurant when tens of thousands in the same city are shoulder to shoulder protesting for a week straight. The toothpaste is already out of the tube.

ronnie_suburban wrote:

shakes wrote:

scottsol wrote:Apparently younger white sophisticated well off urbanites are immune from the disease, or at least the fear of it.

Or maybe they think that after seeing 5 straight days of tens of thousands of people protesting and rioting shoulder to shoulder in just about every city in America that it really doesn't matter anymore if you sit 6 feet from someone else or 2 feet? As far as I'm concerned social distancing ended this week.

Most likely people who are going out at this point have decided that the level of risk is acceptable for them, knowing that restaurants aren't likely to be adept or diligent when it comes to implementing social distancing measures. I think the rest is unrelated, since the two groups (diners and protestors) aren't necessarily linked.

=R=

how are the two groups not linked? We're all linked with the 14 day incubation period and asymptomatic spread.

Pretending social distancing matters anymore after a week of mass protesting is foolish.

scottsol wrote:

shakes wrote:

scottsol wrote:While it is not yet a post- COVID-19 world, the crowd (and it was a crowd) at Maple & Ash were certainly acting like it, with the full cooperation of the restaurant.

The packed patio was not set up for maximum seating, but had far less than six feet between tables. The inside bar was mobbed with non masked patrons, at least the employees were masked.

Apparently younger white sophisticated well off urbanites are immune from the disease, or at least the fear of it.

Or maybe they think that after seeing 5 straight days of tens of thousands of people protesting and rioting shoulder to shoulder in just about every city in America that it really doesn't matter anymore if you sit 6 feet from someone else or 2 feet? As far as I'm concerned social distancing ended this week.

It must be something else because none of the guests were looting the place.

you must not understand my point because your reply makes no sense in relation to it.

shakes wrote:

ronnie_suburban wrote:

shakes wrote:

scottsol wrote:Apparently younger white sophisticated well off urbanites are immune from the disease, or at least the fear of it.

Or maybe they think that after seeing 5 straight days of tens of thousands of people protesting and rioting shoulder to shoulder in just about every city in America that it really doesn't matter anymore if you sit 6 feet from someone else or 2 feet? As far as I'm concerned social distancing ended this week.

Most likely people who are going out at this point have decided that the level of risk is acceptable for them, knowing that restaurants aren't likely to be adept or diligent when it comes to implementing social distancing measures. I think the rest is unrelated, since the two groups (diners and protestors) aren't necessarily linked.

=R=

how are the two groups not linked? We're all linked with the 14 day incubation period and asymptomatic spread.

Pretending social distancing matters anymore after a week of mass protesting is foolish.

Time to move on . . .

=R=

shakes wrote:Exactly. And that's why it doesn't matter if we social distance anymore. It's over. The protests ended it. There's no point having 20 people social distancing in a restaurant when tens of thousands in the same city are shoulder to shoulder protesting for a week straight. The toothpaste is already out of the tube.

Huh? Social distancing still works for the people who do it. It still matters. If you keep your distance from others not living with you, and wear masks in public whenever possible, you are minimizing your own chances of contracting coronavirus, even if others are not.

I hope this topic continues as a way of providing information regarding which restaurants are providing adequate physical distance from other diners, as well as other safety measures.

At the present time, I am not going to be participating in any patio dining. My wife and I will continue doing carryout from our local spots until we can experience on site dining without the post-apocalyptic vibe that currently exists...

We are now one week removed from the initial blast of “non social distancing” and we have not seen a spike in Covid cases - positive results have been declining. If this decline continues for the next 14 days (taking into account today’s marches) it will prove that all of this was done for very limited results.

cito wrote:We are now one week removed from the initial blast of “non social distancing” and we have not seen a spike in Covid cases - positive results have been declining.

That's true in Illinois. However, 23 states (plus DC and PR) have seen an increase in cases in the past week, most with an increase of 10 percent or more. (Ref)

cito wrote:We are now one week removed from the initial blast of “non social distancing” and we have not seen a spike in Covid cases - positive results have been declining. If this decline continues for the next 14 days (taking into account today’s marches) it will prove that all of this was done for very limited results.

Such a ridiculous conclusion cannot go without a reply. Why isn’t your conclusion that the social distancing worked ?

lougord99 wrote:

cito wrote:We are now one week removed from the initial blast of “non social distancing” and we have not seen a spike in Covid cases - positive results have been declining. If this decline continues for the next 14 days (taking into account today’s marches) it will prove that all of this was done for very limited results.

Such a ridiculous conclusion cannot go without a reply. Why isn’t your conclusion that the social distancing worked ?

Please elaborate (and justify) why you believe my “conclusion” is ridiculous... I merely stated that numbers will prove whether or not the scope of this lockdown was warranted. Other states have had less draconian restrictions and have had far less cases.

We had a great brunch at the Original Pancake House today in Park Ridge - they converted part of their parking lot and brought tables and chairs from the restaurant outside. Lots of space between tables, all staff masked, and the owner on site watching like a hawk to make sure employees following all guidelines. Everyone seemed very comfortable.

Also stopped by the Bringer Inn, one of the suburbs’ finest dive bars located in Morton Grove since 1933. Startlingly good pizza, burgers, and fried cod. Even they were abiding by all guidelines, all staff masked, proper distance on tables, and menus being wiped down in between tables.

We’ve been very pleased so far and haven’t run into any issues where we feel uncomfortable. At least around Park Ridge patrons seem to be taking things seriously and restaurants are really towing the line. I’m glad they’re open, we can support them a bit more, and we can get out once in a while.

The state of Illinois did not do any testing for a few days during the uprest, and that is part of the reason the number of new cases are so low. Concerning social distancing though, I went to see my dentist on Tuesday, and yes she was wearing a mask, but I was not and there was no social distancing going on, and yes she was only wearing a surgical mask, and so there is a slight chance that she could work on a protestor and get the virus from him or her, and give me the virus.

Evanston did not have any new cases for a few days, and today they had 6.

cito wrote:Other states have had less draconian restrictions and have had far less cases.

However, many of those states are seeing dramatic rises in the number of cases, while the rates are falling in Illinois thanks in large part to the restrictions here. As noted above, 23 states (plus DC and PR) have seen an increase in cases in the past week, most with an increase of 10 percent or more, and many of those are the ones with fewer restrictions. (Ref) You can see graphs of which individual states are increasing and decreasing in the past two weeks here.