'Closed For Renovations' - why do restaurant owners lie?

I think we all know how frequently it happens that a place puts up a sign saying they're closed for renovations when they're actually closed or about to close. In fact, I'd guess that the 'closed for renovations' message turns out to be false more often than it's true. I just wonder why. There must be an angle here but I'm not sure I understand it. Are these operators ashamed, or in denial? Are they trying to put off creditors and/or employees to whom they owe money long enough to drain whatever resources they can before the truth comes out?

Or, is it just that they wish they worked for an airline?

=R=

The only time I believe a closed for renovations is if it's announced beforehand or if there was a verified physical problem like a fire or leak.

Renovations as in "financial renovations", or refinancing of debt? Probably, in general, wishful thing that they will reopen rather than that they don't want to.

I wish the biggest challenge in my life was an occasional restaurant saying it's closed for renovations when it actually won't re-open.

--Carey

diversedancer wrote:I wish the biggest challenge in my life was an occasional restaurant saying it's closed for renovations when it actually won't re-open.

For those owners who are clawing to keep their business, it is a big challenge. They have my sympathies, because many have private failures, but theirs is for all the world to see.

Regards,
Cathy2

diversedancer wrote:I wish the biggest challenge in my life was an occasional restaurant saying it's closed for renovations when it actually won't re-open.

Me too. I hope you're not inferring that my having started this thread was any indication that this is the biggest challenge I face in my life. I presented it here because I think this is an appropriate place for such an inquiry. Unfortunately, your response adds absolutely no insight to the discussion.

=R=

For the same reason the moderators of LTH emphasize unambiguous reliable evidence/sourcing before posting about closures, owners don't want reports of finality to start until they no longer have access to the space. If they say they're closed before they officially have no chance of staying in business, there's no upside, only the irreparable harm of telling the world they were done and gone before investor/lender savior came along.

bweiny wrote:For the same reason the moderators of LTH emphasize unambiguous reliable evidence/sourcing before posting about closures, owners don't want reports of finality to start until they no longer have access to the space. If they say they're closed before they officially have no chance of staying in business, there's no upside, only the irreparable harm of telling the world they were done and gone before investor/lender savior came along.

That makes some sense but I'm guessing most renovations would require landlord approval, anyway. So, if a tenant unilaterally posted a 'closed for renovations' sign, wouldn't it be just as likely to prompt an unwanted landlord response that could end up restricting the tenant's access to the space?

Of course we're talking about emotional, desperation moves made by people who might not be at their rational best.

=R=

ronnie_suburban wrote:That makes some sense but I'm guessing most renovations would require landlord approval, anyway. So, if a tenant unilaterally posted a 'closed for renovations' sign, wouldn't it be just as likely to prompt an unwanted landlord response that could end up restricting the tenant's access to the space?

I think the landlords are more often than not supportive of putting the extremely unrealistic (or absolutely false) notice up. The possibility of renovations could be a minor deterrent to vandals. As long as the current occupant is liable for rent, denying them access on the basis of an alleged breach of a clause in the lease would invite more legal defenses to the eviction and deficiency judgment than it would be worth. The restaurant and landlord typically should be working together hoping the former can pull a rabbit out of its hat, and the latter getting a start marketing the property as a likely vacancy.

bweiny wrote:

ronnie_suburban wrote:That makes some sense but I'm guessing most renovations would require landlord approval, anyway. So, if a tenant unilaterally posted a 'closed for renovations' sign, wouldn't it be just as likely to prompt an unwanted landlord response that could end up restricting the tenant's access to the space?

I think the landlords are more often than not supportive of putting the extremely unrealistic (or absolutely false) notice up. The possibility of renovations could be a minor deterrent to vandals. As long as the current occupant is liable for rent, denying them access on the basis of an alleged breach of a clause in the lease would invite more legal defenses to the eviction and deficiency judgment than it would be worth. The restaurant and landlord typically should be working together hoping the former can pull a rabbit out of its hat, and the latter getting a start marketing the property as a likely vacancy.

Haha, perhaps the landlords are also unrequited airline industry personnel!

I only mentioned the denial of access because you alluded to it your previous post. I agree that a landlord denying access to a rent-paying tenant might likely provoke some sort of legal response. That said, I've looked at (and signed) enough commercial leases to know that they often contain clauses that give landlords very broad authority over the space should it not be occupied for its intended purposes . . . even if the rent account is current.

In any case, I think this lie-about-renovations dynamic is a restaurant culture thing that, for whatever reason, has become a convention. My guess is that it's an irrational, emotional response that most restaurant owners wrongly believe leaves them with more leverage and options than they actually have.

=R=

Let me suggest as a contribution to the original question of this thread, BEFORE (because it is more important) responding to the attacks on me personally, that "we" often, or even usually, only remember the cases where a restaurant never reopened, and not when it does reopen. Once it reopens, that new existence replaces the period when it was closed in our active memory.

For instance: Ask me and I will SWEAR that "Whenever I am looking for a Phillips screwdriver, I only find flat ones, and visa versa", which is undoubtedly that I only remember the occurrences where I have trouble finding the type I need.

Perhaps many times there is a "closed for renovations" sign and indeed, the restaurant does reopen with a new fryer or something. Specific example: I thought I heard there was a restaurant where "Asian Cajun, Too" in Evanston now is, which "closed for renovations", then did reopen with the new name and new owners, but still some heritage to the prior incarnation.

I'm sure I've seen many threads in this forum where a restaurant re-opened, though I couldn't swear that while closed they all had signs saying "closed for renovations".

On to my defense. My original comment OPENED with:

diversedancer wrote:Renovations as in "financial renovations", or refinancing of debt? Probably, in general, wishful thing that they will reopen rather than that they don't want to.

I thought those were suggestions which might be insight for "closed for renovations" signs. Were my suggestions unclear or gibberish? It was only an afterthought that related to why the question was the question being asked.

I will now formally apologize for my inflammatory comment that would better have been a PM, although I do feel the OP used wording that was just as inflammatory as my comment. Like many others, I do sometimes forget that two wrongs still do not make a right, and do not excuse my comment.

I was thinking about suggesting editing the whole thread to eliminate the "lie" portions, but that would be too complicated, and would now suggest it might be best to delete the entire thread and start over with an initial question as to why it SEEMS "closed for renovations" signs don't result in renovations and re-openings without using emotionally and assumption loaded words such as "lie". Letting each person with constructive comments make them fresh.

The OP was assuming there was, usually if not always, absolutely no intention or expectation to reopen, since the statement was a "lie" as in

a false statement made with deliberate intent to deceive; an intentional untruth; a falsehood.

http://www.dictionary.com

Granted, the comments about hoping to avoid vandalism would include the possibility the "renovations" sign was a "lie", though likely still by the landlord, not the operator.

Other posts seem to have supported my suggestion that they were wishful thinking the place would reopen.

And other comments have suggested the signs were placed by landlords who denied access to the operator, a possibly innocent victim. So the OP comment

Are these operators ashamed, or in denial?

is following the current trend to blame the victim, not the perpetrator. I find this sad, for which I apologize in advance.

Look around. People lie more when there's no consequences.

diversedancer wrote:

ronnie_suburban wrote:Are these operators ashamed, or in denial?

is following the current trend to blame the victim, not the perpetrator. I find this sad, for which I apologize in advance.

Yes, I know what a lie is, thanks. That's exactly why these claims are so noticeably ridiculous. They're overt lies. If you claim you're renovating and you're not, you're lying. While hoping for an angel, a miracle or some other solution to come along may not mean you're closed, it clearly doesn't mean you're renovating, either. But I guess no one's going to post a sign saying "Closed while we try to figure things out." I'd have some serious respect for anyone who did.

For the owners of failed businesses and their employees, I have empathy. For liars, not so much.

=R=

And lets remember the special place in hell for owners that close w/o telling their employees in advance.

Jazzfood wrote:And lets remember the special place in hell for owners that close w/o telling their employees in advance.

Here, here.

A fine, recent example of someone who handled an impending closing in a stand-up way is Adam Hebert of The Radler . . .

“If we were making money, we would have no problems, but we’re not, so something’s gotta give … so I can make a living for me and my family,” Hebert said.

“There’s not really an amount that would save the business — other than a full win of the lottery.”

What, no renovations?! I guess he never got the memo but clearly, at least he was raised right.

=R=

Two basic reasons:

1) Wishful thinking on the part of the owner(s) as they grasp for one last way to avoid the inevitable;

2) Because a restaurant loses a lot of its goodwill and thus sale value if it's no longer a going concern, so they'll pretend to be "temporarily" closed for as long as they can get away with it while shopping it to potential buyers.

ronnie_suburban wrote:That makes some sense but I'm guessing most renovations would require landlord approval, anyway. So, if a tenant unilaterally posted a 'closed for renovations' sign, wouldn't it be just as likely to prompt an unwanted landlord response that could end up restricting the tenant's access to the space?

Of course we're talking about emotional, desperation moves made by people who might not be at their rational best.

=R=

Most commercial leases are for an empty shell and it's up to the tenant to supply the decor, furnishings, and what-not. The landlord typically has no interest in renovations/remodeling such as what type of flooring they have or what color the walls are painted. They typically only care if the tenant is making structural changes.

Drover wrote:Two basic reasons:

1) Wishful thinking on the part of the owner(s) as they grasp for one last way to avoid the inevitable;

2) Because a restaurant loses a lot of its goodwill and thus sale value if it's no longer a going concern, so they'll pretend to be "temporarily" closed for as long as they can get away with it while shopping it to potential buyers.

Yes! I think these, especially #2, are the main reasons but I think that what I posted above . . .

ronnie_suburban wrote:My guess is that it's an irrational, emotional response that most restaurant owners wrongly believe leaves them with more leverage and options than they actually have.

. . . also applies because no informed buyer is going to be fooled (into paying a higher price) by such signage.

=R=

Of course an informed buyer won't be fooled. But the public might be, if a transition can be made quickly enough. It probably doesn't work out that way very often though.

Whether you own a restaurant or another business,in most cases that business is your "baby". You nurture it and you hope that it will grow up to be healthy and successful.

If unfortunately it ends up on life support you're going to do anything you possibly can to avoid pulling the plug on it. "Closed for renovations" seems like a logical idea for someone who still thinks they've got a shot at a bail out.

ronnie_suburban wrote:

diversedancer wrote:

ronnie_suburban wrote:Are these operators ashamed, or in denial?

is following the current trend to blame the victim, not the perpetrator. I find this sad, for which I apologize in advance.

Yes, I know what a lie is, thanks.

I know I responded to this before, I hope I just forgot to hit "submit post".

My comment about blaming the victim was responding to a suggestion by another else that the "closed for renovations" sign was put there by the property owner (who had possibly locked the business operator out, hence "victim") and not by the business operator. It is fine to blame the property owner if the s/he is the liar, but not to blame the business operator.

And I will repeat my suggestion, that I made before, that we forget the times when the business DOES indeed reopen. The original post suggested that businesses NEVER reopen after posting a "closed for renovations" sign, which would, granted, imply the sign was posted with little expectation it would reopen, but if they indeed do reopen half the time, it could be honest failures at completing the renovations. Such as the oven broke, and the business owner thought it could be fixed for a reasonable amount of money, but it turns out it would have to be completely replaced and s/he cannot afford that.

Please, if anybody remembers occurrences where an establishment closed "for renovations", then did re-open, please post that here, it is relevant information. As I said, I thought I remembered it was reported on LTH that the "Asian Cajun Too" location had been "closed for renovations", then being renovated and re-opening, albeit with a different owner.

I guess it is time to repeat, that if one of the biggest problems in my life was a restaurant or two closing but posting a sign that was lie saying they would re-open, thus causing me angst waiting for the re-opening, I would be more grateful than I can even imagine. I don't care how good their food is, there are probably a dozen other restaurants almost as good, and even if not, that particular restaurant is does not have sole responsibility for all that is good in my life. Now if someone lied and harmed the employees, THAT I would care about, but I need evidence before I get upset.

Do you publicly post the details of your life (I know many millennials do so on Facebook and Twitter hourly, but I do not). Would we expect a business operator to post the personal details of their life thus:

"My parent was diagnosed with terminal cancer and I must fly home to take over their business. We are hoping two of my spouse's siblings can take over this business, but they have to sell their vacation home and boat, then give notice at their day jobs, in order to buy me out, so this restaurant may reopen in a month or two, or may not"

My recollection is this is something like what happened with that small originally Japanese, later Korean grocery store on Algonquin just east of Mitsue market. I don't know if the closed sign said "for renovations" or not, but I'm pretty sure it was closed for a while.

This recently happened at...

Hackney's
9550 123rd St, Palos Park

They closed and were doing actual repairs but after a month decided not to reopen.

I am thinking the renovations had exceeded their intended budget? Maybe I am naïve?

diversedancer wrote:Do you publicly post the details of your life (I know many millennials do so on Facebook and Twitter hourly, but I do not). Would we expect a business operator to post the personal details of their life thus:

"My parent was diagnosed with terminal cancer and I must fly home to take over their business. We are hoping two of my spouse's siblings can take over this business, but they have to sell their vacation home and boat, then give notice at their day jobs, in order to buy me out, so this restaurant may reopen in a month or two, or may not"

My recollection is this is something like what happened with that small originally Japanese, later Korean grocery store on Algonquin just east of Mitsue market. I don't know if the closed sign said "for renovations" or not, but I'm pretty sure it was closed for a while.

False Excluded Middle fallacy -- there's lots of ground between "Closed for Renovations" and writing a posting a detailed essay on why you're closing. Such as simply "We're Closing."

Panther in the Den wrote:I am thinking the renovations had exceeded their intended budget? Maybe I am naïve?

I remember walking into Bacio's in Highwood to pick up a sandwich. Everything was 25% off, because they were closing. I learned the landlord would not do repairs required by a governmental authority. They decided to leave quickly and just before Easter, when they probably would have had very good sales.

That location has remained vacant ever since. I hope the landlord is kicking himself for being short term cheap and long term screwed. Taxes and upkeep don't stop when the tenant leaves.

Regards,
Cathy2

Drover wrote:

diversedancer wrote:Do you publicly post the details of your life (I know many millennials do so on Facebook and Twitter hourly, but I do not). ....

My recollection is this is something like what happened with that small originally Japanese, later Korean grocery store on Algonquin just east of Mitsue market. I don't know if the closed sign said "for renovations" or not, but I'm pretty sure it was closed for a while.

False Excluded Middle fallacy -- there's lots of ground between "Closed for Renovations" and writing a posting a detailed essay on why you're closing. Such as simply "We're Closing."

"We're closing" and ALL your regular customers will never come back. A few may happen to drive by and discover by accident that you've reopened, but maybe that will be 5 months after reopening rather than 5 days after reopening.

"Closed for renovations" and they will check back, by phone or visiting.

Again, if this issue is so big you have time to worry about this, rather than the chance of getting killed by a stray bullet in a gang war, or not knowing where your next meal is coming from, or how much debt your terminally ill spouse will rack up before dying, then, sure keep bitching about signs that SOMETIMES are untrue about "closed for renovations".

And yes, I know I'm personally an idiot for going up against multiple moderators and a charter member. I've always been a defender of the defenseless.

And yes, it would ALWAYS be better (even for true renovations) to say:

Closed, hope to reopen in May

or

Closed, might reopen in May

or

Closed
check http://www.facebook.com/myrestaurant
for news on possible reopening

but life isn't perfect.

diversedancer wrote:Again, if this issue is so big you have time to worry about this, rather than the chance of getting killed by a stray bullet in a gang war, or not knowing where your next meal is coming from, or how much debt your terminally ill spouse will rack up before dying, then, sure keep bitching about signs that SOMETIMES are untrue about "closed for renovations".

Guess what? When people come here to post, it is pretty much about food and issues related to it.

And yes, I know I'm personally an idiot for going up against multiple moderators and a charter member.

What you are going against constantly here is community who has conventions. Many of us have known each other for 15 years plus. Sure, it is not easy to be a newbie, but all of us had the same baptism by fire and had to prove ourselves.

The people who succeeded least were big fish in little ponds, who thought we'd just roll over for them. This is a pond full of big fish who have various areas of expertise. I have learned far more from them than I can even appreciate.

Regards,
Cathy2

diversedancer wrote:I guess it is time to repeat, that if one of the biggest problems in my life was a restaurant or two closing but posting a sign that was lie saying they would re-open, thus causing me angst waiting for the re-opening, I would be more grateful than I can even imagine.

Why? The point remains as irrelevant now as it was the first time you posted it. No one here claimed any such thing. You're putting words in peoples' mouths. It's classic straw man.

=R=

Panther in the Den wrote:This recently happened at...

Hackney's
9550 123rd St, Palos Park

They closed and were doing actual repairs but after a month decided not to reopen.

I am thinking the renovations had exceeded their intended budget? Maybe I am naïve?

Not naïve at all. That's exactly what happened...

Hackney's at 123rd Street and LaGrange Road has been closed for over a month. An outgoing message said the restaurant would be closed until further notice as the owners dealt with some building maintenance issues. On Tuesday, however, Mike Masterson, the son of the original owners, announced the sad news on the restaurant's Facebook page.

"With heavy hearts, we announce that after 33 years of serving customers at our Palos Park Location on 123rd and LaGrange Rd, we made the difficult decision to permanently close our doors. Due to increased costs for significant maintenance on our building, we deemed it impractical and unrealistic to continue operating at this location, especially as Mike is nearing retirement. It has been our privilege to serve our community for the last 33 years. We express our heartfelt appreciation and gratitude to our loyal customers, our dedicated employees, and the Palos Community."

https://patch.com/illinois/palos/hackne ... reat-years

"Closed Until Further Notice, Stay Tuned for Updates" or some equivalent perfectly conveys that you hope to reopen without claiming that you are about to make renovations that you have no intention of making.

(Please excuse any typos -- am posting from Idlib Province and trying to dodge crossfire. Also, can't seem to get 5G here, wtf. Oh shit, incomi

diversedancer wrote:And yes, I know I'm personally an idiot for going up against multiple moderators and a charter member. I've always been a defender of the defenseless.

I'm sure the burden weighs heavily on your shoulders.