Chinese Food Question

Some decades ago, I became acquainted with Chinese restaurants that were not Cantonese, and were not Szechwan. The food was somewhat oily and had a lot of black mushrooms in it. The egg rolls had a thinner skin and were more oily as well. The food was not hot and did not have peppers and peanuts. I think maybe something called tree ears might have been used. Usually sizzlilng rice soup, moo shu pork and Mongolian beef was on the menu. Can anyone tell me what type of food this was and if there are any restaurants around (especially in the western burbs) that have it??? I'm thinking maybe it was Hunan or Mandarin. Maybe I'm confused though. Pls advise.

Bump.

Dear Toria,

I think you might be talking about Hunan food but I am not sure. I recall similar menus with moo shu pork, sizzling rice soup, and also shrimp toast. Perhaps you could ask the folks at LTHForum as they are a helpful bunch.

Love, Toria

Where did you eat this food, what city? Chicago? LA? Boston? Maybe that would help in figuring out what region it might have been from... Was it one restaurant, several, most of the Chinese restaurants in whatever city? Can you provide more clues?

The dishes in OP were common at Mandarin restaurants in the 1970s. These restaurants typically derived from academically connected people from Taiwan with Kuomintang (Chiang Kai-shek's party) origins on the mainland before the Communists took over. In the Chicago area Peter Lo's and various restaurants with Dragon in the name were examples. Dragon Inn in the southern suburbs was the first in the Chicago area in the 1960s although another Mandarin restaurant opened in West Lafayette, IN about the same time and may have been slightly earlier.

Sorry for not being more specific....I ate this food in Chicago or its suburbs. Can't remember exactly when or what the name of the restaurants were.

ekreider wrote:The dishes in OP were common at Mandarin restaurants in the 1970s. These restaurants typically derived from academically connected people from Taiwan with Kuomintang (Chiang Kai-shek's party) origins on the mainland before the Communists took over. In the Chicago area Peter Lo's and various restaurants with Dragon in the name were examples. Dragon Inn in the southern suburbs was the first in the Chicago area in the 1960s although another Mandarin restaurant opened in West Lafayette, IN about the same time and may have been slightly earlier.

That's an excellent, concise answer. I'll expand on a few points.

In 1964 an important restaurant opened in a shopping center in the far-south suburb of Glenwood. Dragon Inn was perhaps the first area restaurant to serve such then-exotic dishes as hot and sour soup and moo shu pork—a significant departure from Chicago's steady diet of chow mein and egg foo yung. Within ten years they expanded to the north side (Dragon Seed in the Belmont Stratford) and north suburbs (Dragon Inn North).

In 1967 Peter Lo left the Dragon Inn to open his own place, the Chinese Tea House on the northwest side. By the early 1970s he was involved in such restaurants as Cathay Mandarin and Peter Lo's (first in Rogers Park, later on N Lincoln).

In the early 1970s other "Mandarin" restaurants opened in quick succession: Tien Tsin in Rogers Park, Man Dar Inn in Chinatown (run by some Dragon Inn founders), the upscale Mandarin House and many others.

Many of these restaurants served a roughly similar hodgepodge of a menu characterized by hot and sour soup, sizzling rice soup, moo shu pork, Peking duck and glazed bananas for dessert (often dumped from a pan into a bowl of ice water).

In 1974 another influential Chinese restaurant opened in Chicago. House of Hunan, on the second floor at 3150 N Lincoln, was the first to popularize the spicy fare of Hunan and Szechuan. They served the by-then-common hot and sour soup and sizzling rice dishes but introduced dishes such as willow beef with a serious chili heat. This is the first restaurant I recall that warned diners with red underlining. The restaurant became very popular and many imitators soon appeared (notably one on N Michigan, whose owners had bought the name). Within a few years even the original went into severe decline but by then the Hunan/Szechuan rage in Chicago was well underway.

Rene -
Thanks for the history of Mandarin/Hunan in Chicago.
Another data point is (long gone) "Mandarin Village" at Dundee and Sanders in Northbrook, opening somewhere in the early 70's. It had versions of Kung Pao Chicken (the way it should taste, and has disappeared over the decades), Mu Shu, Hot and Sour, and a very tasty, oily dish called "Beef with White Onion" that really I haven't seen anywhere since.

I'd almost forgotten Northbrook's Mandarin Village. I loved that beef with white onions.

Fun to see the history laid out. While I didn't eat egg foo yung or chow mein growing up, we ate a lot of Cantonese food (especially from Bob Chinn's first venture, House of Chan in Wilmette). That was through the '60s. I don't remember when hot and sour soup became part of my life, but I don't remember us eating much Chinese soup, unless we were eating out. (House of Chan was strictly carry out.) I do, however, remember noticing the emergence of Mandarin, Hunan, and Sichuan cooking in the area -- and have always been grateful -- though there are many Cantonese dishes I still love -- especially things with almonds or black mushrooms, and it offered me my first experience of vermicelli. Yum. Making myself hungry thinking about it.

Cynthia,

Was House of Chan in a stand-alone building on Green Bay Road? When did it close?

Regards,

At some point around the same time, The Abacus opened on the corner of Wrightwood and Clark; serving many of those same dishes in an upscale atmosphere. Does anyone know how they fit in the pantheon of Chinese/Mandarin-Style restaurants? To this day, every time I look at the 7-11 which now sits at the same location, I wish The Abacus was still there.

Rene G wrote:In the early 1970s other "Mandarin" restaurants opened in quick succession: Tien Tsin in Rogers Park, Man Dar Inn in Chinatown (run by some Dragon Inn founders), the upscale Mandarin House and many others.

stevez wrote:At some point around the same time, The Abacus opened on the corner of Wrightwood and Clark; serving many of those same dishes in an upscale atmosphere. Does anyone know how they fit in the pantheon of Chinese/Mandarin-Style restaurants?

The Abacus opened in mid 1973, part of the early 1970s wave of openings but after Tien Tsin (7018 N Clark; early 1971), Man Dar Inn (2130 S Wentworth; Spring 1972) and Mandarin House (5429 N Lincoln; 1972). Unlike most other restaurants, they "specialized" in Mandarin, Cantonese, Szechuan and Shanghai cooking. The owner, a Shanghainese biochemist (see ekreider's post), later opened the short-lived Dr Shen's, a posh Chinese-American eatery near State & Rush.

Cynthia wrote:While I didn't eat egg foo yung or chow mein growing up, we ate a lot of Cantonese food (especially from Bob Chinn's first venture, House of Chan in Wilmette). That was through the '60s.

Actually Bob Chinn's first successful place was the Golden Pagoda, opened in Evanston in 1955. Several years later he relocated to Wilmette and changed the name to House of Chan. Around the same time his brother Walter ran Chan's Tea House in Highland Park. In 1973 Wally and Bob partnered to open Kahala Terrace in Northbrook (the House of Chan continued under his wife's direction). In the early 1980s he sold the Polynesian restaurant, then opened Bob Chinn's Crab House in 1982.

Bob Chinn comes from a family with deep roots in the Chicago area restaurant scene. During the 1930s Bob's father, Wai Chinn, ran Oriental Gardens, a large restaurant across from the Oriental Theater on Randolph. You can see a postcard from Oriental Gardens on npchicago's great website. Later, Wai Chinn opened a more modest place, New Wilson Village in Uptown, that remained family-run well into the 1970s. Some might remember the House of Chinn on Western near Devon that was run by Bob's brother in the 1970s, after he left New Wilson Village.

Cathy2 wrote:Was House of Chan in a stand-alone building on Green Bay Road? When did it close?

I think House of Chan may still be in business. They have a website (of sorts) and there is a Yelp review from May 2009 (in 3 reviews, Yelpers give HoC a perfect 5 of 5 star rating). The address still seems to be 627 Green Bay Rd, the same as it was in the 1960s (a second HoC opened on Dempster in Skokie in 1965). When I phoned a couple hours ago I got a recording saying they weren't open on Sundays. I have no idea about current ownership but I'm intrigued enough to consider a trip to Wilmette.

House of Chan is still in business. Despite the Yelp reviews, I don't think Wilmette is worth a special trip for Chinese food.

Over the last 5+ years I've gotten Chinese take-out dozens of times from places in Wilmette. It's generally OK, but not anything special.

I don't know who the current owner of House of Chan is, but he's quite pleasant. The menu http://www.grubhub.com/details.jsp?custId=60709 is very standard, as is the execution. Atmosphere is hole-in-the-wall. It's primarily take out, but there are a couple of tables for eating in.

Prices are slightly less than at Tsing Tao one block south, but these days I'm more inclined to order from Tsing Tao than from Chan.

A notch ahead of both is Pine Yard in Evanston http://pineyardrestaurant.com/. Please keep in mind that all are adapted to North Shore tastes and none compare to the best of Chinatown.

Pine Yard Restaurant
1033 Davis St
Evanston, IL 60201
847-475-4940

Tsing Tao Mandarin Chinese
537 Green Bay Rd
Wilmette, IL 60091
847-251-7760

Dragon Inn is still around, although I wouldn't recommend it to anyone these days. I don't know who owns it at this point in time. I was always led to believe that the original owners were somehow involved as professors, or relatives of professors, at the University of Chicago when the Glenwood restaurant first opened. It used to be one of my favorite restaurants in the neighborhood and I even ordered from them the night I went into labor with my second child. The quality of the food has deteriorated over the years.

Suzy

Thanks everyone. Rene G. thanks for the history. Thats exactly what I was trying to put my finger on. I remember too the glazed bananas for dessert. Exactly. I think I probably frequented the Abacus because I used to live near there.

George R wrote:House of Chan is still in business. Despite the Yelp reviews, I don't think Wilmette is worth a special trip for Chinese food.

Thanks for the confirmation and the warning. I didn't take the Yelp reviews seriously and my visit would be more for the history than for the food. Thanks also for the link to the menu; it didn't turn up in my searches. I suspect the current menu is quite different than it was in the Bob Chinn days. I wonder if House of Chan might be the oldest suburban Chinese restaurant. I'm not at all sure but I can't think of any older.

sdritz wrote:Dragon Inn is still around, although I wouldn't recommend it to anyone these days.

I had no idea Dragon Inn is still in business. A quick check suggests Dragon Inn North is around too. The suburbs seem like amber, trapping and preserving (however imperfectly) the old Mandarin places.

So, for a good meal of sizzling rice soup and moo shu pork what restaurant would people recommend these days?

toria wrote:Thanks everyone. Rene G. thanks for the history. Thats exactly what I was trying to put my finger on. I remember too the glazed bananas for dessert. Exactly. I think I probably frequented the Abacus because I used to live near there.

You're very welcome; it's an interesting topic. Other Mandarin-style restaurants in the area (in the mid-70s) included Lee's (Clark & Menomenee), Mongolian House (Clark & Roscoe), Charlie Chan's (Clark & Grace) and Garden of Happiness (Lincoln & Cornelia). Maybe some will sound familiar.

Rene G wrote:So, for a good meal of sizzling rice soup and moo shu pork what restaurant would people recommend these days?

It's been quite a while since my last visit, but Moon Palace used to be my go to spot for both of these items.

Moon Palace
216 West Cermak Road
Chicago, IL 60616
(312) 225-4081

Rene G wrote:

George R wrote:

toria wrote:Thanks everyone. Rene G. thanks for the history. Thats exactly what I was trying to put my finger on. I remember too the glazed bananas for dessert. Exactly. I think I probably frequented the Abacus because I used to live near there.

You're very welcome; it's an interesting topic. Other Mandarin-style restaurants in the area (in the mid-70s) included Lee's (Clark & Menomenee), Mongolian House (Clark & Roscoe), Charlie Chan's (Clark & Grace) and Garden of Happiness (Lincoln & Cornelia). Maybe some will sound familiar.

Our family's Clark St. favorite: Wing Yee's (perhaps this is the one you mention as "Lee's")

My parents started eating there in the '50s and were frequent customers until they closed in the '80s. One family member moved to a location in Skokie but it was never the same and that has been gone for years now.

We always ordered egg rolls (no cabbage, lots of bean sprouts and housemade sweet and sour sauce with an applesauce/vinegar base); "tomato, pepper, beef" vegetable soup and then what ever else struck my dad's fancy.

stevez wrote:It's been quite a while since my last visit, but Moon Palace used to be my go to spot for both of these items.

I haven't been to Moon Palace for a long time either (think that's saying something?). Maybe it's time to revisit.

Diannie wrote:Our family's Clark St. favorite: Wing Yee's (perhaps this is the one you mention as "Lee's")

My parents started eating there in the '50s and were frequent customers until they closed in the '80s. One family member moved to a location in Skokie but it was never the same and that has been gone for years now.

Wing Yee's Chop Suey opened at at 2556 N Clark in 1965. Before that, Mr Yee was at Ding Hoe (Clark & Division). As far as I know Wing Yee's and Lee's were unrelated. Lee's (at 1750 N Clark in The Warehouse, an early urban mall) had a Mandarin/Szechuan menu while Wing Yee's specialized in Cantonese food.

Rene G wrote:

Diannie wrote:Our family's Clark St. favorite: Wing Yee's (perhaps this is the one you mention as "Lee's")

My parents started eating there in the '50s and were frequent customers until they closed in the '80s. One family member moved to a location in Skokie but it was never the same and that has been gone for years now.

Wing Yee's Chop Suey opened at at 2556 N Clark in 1965. Before that, Mr Yee was at Ding Hoe (Clark & Division). As far as I know Wing Yee's and Lee's were unrelated. Lee's (at 1750 N Clark in The Warehouse, an early urban mall) had a Mandarin/Szechuan menu while Wing Yee's specialized in Cantonese food.

Yes, I'd forgotten about Ding Hoe. The original Wing Yee's spot was small but they expanded into the storefront next door some time in the late '60s/early '70s. Do you remember when?

Diannie wrote:The original Wing Yee's spot was small but they expanded into the storefront next door some time in the late '60s/early '70s. Do you remember when?

Wing Yee expanded and remodeled in 1970.

My recollections fit Rene G's information. Lee's was a Mandarin restaurant on the 2nd floor of the warehouse, above Bigsby & Kruthers. For large groups they would do a banquet (this was after Nixons' China diplomacy) which included (of course) Peking duck. I remember attending several such dinners.

Wing Yee was one of the better Cantonese restaurants in the city; I liked it, especially when I needed a Chow Mein fix (guilty pleasure).

I also have positive memories of Mongolian House on Clark and House of Hunan in the 3100 block of Lincoln - the latter started up in the 80's.

Does anyone have info on a Mandarin restaurant on Clark in Andersonville? I can't remember the name; it was about 5400 north on the east side of the street. I'm pretty sure it dates from about the mid-seventies. That was when I returned from a trip to San Francisco where I discovered Hunan Restaurant (it only had seating at a small counter then) and was looking for good Chinese food in Chicago. I think it was several years until Hunan food reached Chicago.

Thanks.

George R wrote:Does anyone have info on a Mandarin restaurant on Clark in Andersonville? I can't remember the name; it was about 5400 north on the east side of the street. I'm pretty sure it dates from about the mid-seventies. That was when I returned from a trip to San Francisco where I discovered Hunan Restaurant (it only had seating at a small counter then) and was looking for good Chinese food in Chicago. I think it was several years until Hunan food reached Chicago.

Thanks.

There was also Hunan House (not 100% sure abot the correct name) on Clark near Wrightwood in a small storefront next to what was then a bowling alley. It was my goto place for spicy Chinese until they closed and moved much farther north on Lincoln (around 5400 N.).

stevez wrote:

Rene G wrote:So, for a good meal of sizzling rice soup and moo shu pork what restaurant would people recommend these days?

It's been quite a while since my last visit, but Moon Palace used to be my go to spot for both of these items.

Moon Palace
216 West Cermak Road
Chicago, IL 60616
(312) 225-4081

Tae Fu in Villa Park. Those two items are slam dunks; YMMV on other offerings.

312 E Saint Charles Rd
Villa Park, IL 60181
(630) 832-2269

Agree on Moon Palace; they also serve nice dumplings in several varieties.

George R wrote:I also have positive memories of Mongolian House on Clark and House of Hunan in the 3100 block of Lincoln - the latter started up in the 80's.

House of Hunan opened on Lincoln in 1975. I was wrong when I said 1974 in an earlier post.

George R wrote:Does anyone have info on a Mandarin restaurant on Clark in Andersonville? I can't remember the name; it was about 5400 north on the east side of the street. I'm pretty sure it dates from about the mid-seventies. That was when I returned from a trip to San Francisco where I discovered Hunan Restaurant (it only had seating at a small counter then) and was looking for good Chinese food in Chicago. I think it was several years until Hunan food reached Chicago.

You may be thinking of Northern China on the northeast corner of Clark & Bryn Mawr. It opened around 1976 and served the usual suspects—sizzling rice soup, moo shu pork and glazed bananas—as well as things like sea cucumber.

Rene G wrote:

You may be thinking of Northern China on the northeast corner of Clark & Bryn Mawr. It opened around 1976 and served the usual suspects—sizzling rice soup, moo shu pork and glazed bananas—as well as things like sea cucumber.

Thanks, that's it! I do recall it was on the NE corner. Back in those days sizzling rice soup, moo shu pork and glazed bananas were the latest thing.

Hi,

Yu Lin's Dumpling House was across from the Highland Park Police station had the sizzling rice soup and molten glazed bananas tossed into ice water to stiffen the crust. It was quite the enlightened Chinese experience at the time.

(George R, am I right on the name?)

Regards,

That's the location on Old Deerfield road now occupied by Bluegrass restaurant.

Yu Lin's Dumpling House sounds right. If I recall correctly there was a name change or a new Chinese restaurant came in at that location called either Windows or Windows of Cuisine which was pretty decent and lasted for a number of years.

stevez wrote:There was also Hunan House (not 100% sure abot the correct name) on Clark near Wrightwood in a small storefront next to what was then a bowling alley. It was my goto place for spicy Chinese until they closed and moved much farther north on Lincoln (around 5400 N.).

I'm coming up blank on that one but with some more information I may be able to look it up. Was it north or south of the Playdium (I assume that's the bowling alley you mention)? Approximately what years? And the restaurant on Lincoln, east or west side?

Santander wrote:Tae Fu in Villa Park.

Thanks for that suggestion. I never heard of Tae Fu but a quick search says it's been around since about 1976. Next visit to Lunar Brewing I'll have to check it out.

Cathy2 wrote:Yu Lin's Dumpling House was across from the Highland Park Police station had the sizzling rice soup and molten glazed bananas tossed into ice water to stiffen the crust. It was quite the enlightened Chinese experience at the time.

Yu Lin's Chinese Dumpling House North opened in 1973 on Old Deerfield Road just north of Richfield. Her original Chinese Dumpling House was in Rogers Park.

Yu Lin was married to Peter Lo when in the late 1960s they ran Chinese Tea House, one of the first offshoots from Dragon Inn (see my first post in this thread). Yu Lin then went on to open Chinese Dumpling House at Paulina & Howard before opening the one in Highland Park. Her new husband was from Tibet so the Dumpling Houses also had some Tibetan dishes on the menu.

It's surprising how many Chinese restaurants trace their lineage back to Dragon Inn, which opened in 1964 in south suburban Glenwood. It may have been this area's most influential Asian restaurant.

Hi,

Yu Lin was a former wife of Peter Lo? Was she Rose's Mother who was always at Peter Lo's side?

Subject: Forty One North Closing??

Cathy2 wrote:Panda Panda was on second street where Cosia is now. [Update: Cosia closed, now the relocated Stash's Hot Dog stand] You are fortunate, the Panda Panda owners have a Chinese take-out by the post office [Update: No longer true, because they sold this to people who ran Golden Crown in Northbrook]:

Yu's Szechuan
822 Central Ave,
Highland Park, IL
(847) 432-8888

I was there once when a customer came off the street. Recognized the owner. Proceeded to have a hissy fit wondering why they didn't alert the world of their lineage to Panda Panda. The founder is Peter Lo, who is in poor health, his daughter Rose has been running it. From an early interaction on Chowhound I know their prior restaurant locations:

Chowhound wrote:This is an old posting, but there is a reason for my getting involved: after over 30 years, I've lost Peter Lo. Here's the info for the past 33 years:
The first restaurant I knew of was on Paulina north of Howard (called the Jungle).
He moved to Lincoln near McCormack across from the shopping center.
He then sold the restaurant and his name, and, I guess, had a no compete provision, so he disappeared for quite a while.
He reopened in Highland Park under the name Panda, Panda (great as always).
My problem is that he's now closed and I don't know what happened. He's up in years and his health has been marginal for years.
If anyone knows what happened, please let me know.

...