Staking indeterminate tomato plants?

Hit the Kilbourn Organic Greenhouse sale for the first time this morning, and went a little crazy with the heirloom tomatoes. I now have 10 indeterminate varieties to plant in two raised beds that are about 4' x 6'. I don't think I've grown indeterminates before--those I've grown in the past has always done just fine in cages--and I'm getting a wee bit nervous reading that they can grow six or seven feet tall. What methods have you used successfully to stake these sprawlers?

It's my understanding that the indeterminate varieties grow best vertically. I've seen stakes with twine running between them (I did something similar but in containers) so the plants "climb the ladder" so to speak. You can get long stakes at home depot. I used 4' stakes that have the ability to add another 1/2" round stake if it needs. If they get plenty of sun and water, I bet you'll be looking at 6ft plants by Sept. Good luck.

tyrus wrote:It's my understanding that the indeterminate varieties grow best vertically. I've seen stakes with twine running between them (I did something similar but in containers) so the plants "climb the ladder" so to speak. .

I tried this method two years ago and ran into problems. The fruit on my plant was so large, that the branches became heavy and the twine started cutting into the branches that were resting on the twine. Since then, I've been told by other tomato growers that you should use pantyhose (!) instead of twine. It's softer and has more give. I guess its a good way to use useless pairs that have runs in them.

I've also tried stacking cages and tomato spirals. My spirals were 5 feet tall, not 4 feet like the ones in the link. The cages came apart and the spirals bent under the weight of my plants.

I think I try a new method every year!

Kim

Hi,

My friend Hope has an extensive vegetable garden in Wadsworth. She is very keen on using pantyhose to stake her tomato garden. In the photo, you will see wooden stakes with pantyhose laced in between to keep the tomatoes erect. She usually has some cherry type tomatoes she allows to snake around on the ground. Her daughter works for a large company where the women in her department donate their used pantyhose to Hope's garden.



Regards,

In the photo, you will see wooden stakes with pantyhose laced in between to keep the tomatoes erect.

So the main stalks of the tomatoes grow up encircled by the pantyhose? Thanks for the responses; this is really helpful.

Hi,

I will ask Hope if she has a closer picture of her pantyhose rigging.

Regards,

Kim3 wrote:

tyrus wrote:It's my understanding that the indeterminate varieties grow best vertically. I've seen stakes with twine running between them (I did something similar but in containers) so the plants "climb the ladder" so to speak. .

I tried this method two years ago and ran into problems. The fruit on my plant was so large, that the branches became heavy and the twine started cutting into the branches that were resting on the twine. Since then, I've been told by other tomato growers that you should use pantyhose (!) instead of twine. It's softer and has more give. I guess its a good way to use useless pairs that have runs in them.
Kim

If you use the twine, try using "j" hooks for your plants if the branches get too heavy. Here's a link with some options for that very problem: http://www.hydro-gardens.com/growsup1.htm

Also, I don't use the twine to tie to the vines, for that I use small pieces of pantyhose, which will expand to accommodate the plant. The twine is just there to provide a trellis to tie to.

There's two other ways you can do it. First, if you have room, run out a horizontal section of chicken wire, at, maybe, 2.5 or 3 feet height, and 5 or 6 feet long. The indeterminate vines just love to grow that way, and the height makes it easy to pick. I've typically grown Roma and other sorts this way. The crops are enormous (requiring frequent and sturdy vertical supports!), and the vines were very fruitful.

My Uncle Bob built his own 6' tall cages out of hog wire supported by 1" re-bar. You could get a *massive* crop from those, and the spacing on the hog wire allows the hand to enter for picking.

Hog wire:

http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&q ... ages&gbv=2

Geo

First, if you have room, run out a horizontal section of chicken wire, at, maybe, 2.5 or 3 feet height, and 5 or 6 feet long....The crops are enormous (requiring frequent and sturdy vertical supports!), and the vines were very fruitful.

Hmmm, I'm having trouble picturing this. What I'm imagining is, I would take my length of chicken wire, staple it to some stakes or something, and put them in the ground along the length of my beds. Then I would still need stakes for the plants and pantyhose to tie the vines (or stalks?) to the stakes (or the wire?)? I guess I'm not clear on what the purpose of the chicken wire is.

The chicken wire is, let's say, 24" wide. It is set out plane parallel to the ground (hammock-like), suspended from at least 4, maybe 6 or 8, 2.5-ft tall stakes, so you have a chicken-wire 'rug' about 2.5-ft off the ground. Grow the tomato up through the center of the wire, or at either end, in the center of the width. Let it flop over onto the wire 'rug', and spread out.

Does that make any more sense??

Hope so!

Geo

Ah, now I get it. I've never come across this method; I'm intrigued! I actually have some chicken wire lying around. I think I'll give it a go, at least for some of these plants. I think I'll try the stakes and pantyhose too, and see how the two approaches compare. Thanks, everyone!

I actually saw it for the first time in a kitchen garden in Italy, for growing Romas. Made so much sense I had to try it. Takes a lot of room, but the crop load AND the quality is fantastic. Pls keep us posted on your trials!

Geo

I have a lot of tomato cages, so what I've done is lash them together one on top of another, with a few bamboo poles for extra reinforcement. Typically, instead of growing one plant per cage setup, I plant three or four tomato plants around the outside of the cage and then weave the stems in and out as they grow.

In the days when I gardened in a yard with chain-link fence, I sometimes grew the tomatoes up the fence.

Tomato cages also work well for peas.

I have six Texas Tomato Cages in my garden: http://www.tomatocage.com/index.html

They're 2 feet wide, 6 feet tall, kind of expensive ($100 + s&h for 6), and they collapse for easy storage. I've never used them before, but I believe they will work just fine. Last year, I was constantly re-rigging tomato cages that were too weak to support the vines. In fact, I bet I spent more time fixing falling-apart-tomato-cages than I did on just about any other aspect of garden maintenance (except maybe weeding). Texas Tomato Cages come in two three-foot sections that fit together.



I do anticipate staking the plants at early stages, but they get a lot of sun all day long so I'm expected (hoping for) big monster plants.

This is great info, David, thanks. I live in Oak Park too--maybe I can come by and see your tomatoes sometime this summer!

vegmama wrote:This is great info, David, thanks. I live in Oak Park too--maybe I can come by and see your tomatoes sometime this summer!

Sure thing. Just shoot me a pm/email whenever you want to come by (if I'm not home, the garden is very visible from the back alley, and if you're not too shy, just walk right in the back gate and have a look around).

David Hammond wrote:I have six Texas Tomato Cages in my garden: http://www.tomatocage.com/index.html

They're 2 feet wide, 6 feet tall, kind of expensive ($100 + s&h for 6), and they collapse for easy storage. I've never used them before, but I believe they will work just fine. Last year, I was constantly re-rigging tomato cages that were too weak to support the vines. In fact, I bet I spent more time fixing falling-apart-tomato-cages than I did on just about any other aspect of garden maintenance (except maybe weeding). Texas Tomato Cages come in two three-foot sections that fit together.



I do anticipate staking the plants at early stages, but they get a lot of sun all day long so I'm expected (hoping for) big monster plants.

ive got the 4 foot square cages..i find they are more stable than the round oneswhich tend to fall in bad storms with the weight of the tomato plants..i normally will drive a couple stakes into the ground next to the cages and tie the cages to the stakes for added strength

Head's Red BBQ wrote:ive got the 4 foot square cages..i find they are more stable than the round oneswhich tend to fall in bad storms with the weight of the tomato plants..i normally will drive a couple stakes into the ground next to the cages and tie the cages to the stakes for added strength

Well, this year I'm experimenting, and I have pushed the bottom legs at least 7 inches or so into the ground, so I'd be kind of suprised if they tipped over, but we shall see.

ive got the 4 foot square cages..

Where do you get the square cages? I see only round ones on the site David recommended; I was planning to order a six-pack.

DH--

I wouldn't trust one of those big cage's stability with only the feet pushed into the ground. You can get enormous leverage out of 6 feet of tomato, plus the weight of the crop will be on the high end, which decreases the stability even more. Half of an 18" length of re-bar buried and then tied to the cage would be a lot more stable.

Geo

Geo wrote:DH--

I wouldn't trust one of those big cage's stability with only the feet pushed into the ground. You can get enormous leverage out of 6 feet of tomato, plus the weight of the crop will be on the high end, which decreases the stability even more. Half of an 18" length of re-bar buried and then tied to the cage would be a lot more stable.

Geo

Although the cage's have the capacity, I'll be a little surprised (though delighted) if I get plants that go above 4 feet. In case of instability, I've got the rebar ready.

Hey guys I've been reading this for a while now. I have just recently within the past 6 monts gotten more into my plants. I bought my first tomato plants the opening day of Green City. I picked up sun gold, Green Zebra and Juliette. I have never grown a plant for fruit beore. I live in an apartment so they are in containers. I have them all in 10 inch with 4 foot stakes right now. they have shot to about two and a half to three feet since i replanted. Any specific advise for indoor container growing?

Menard's was advertising regular 3-foot tomato cages this week for 69 cents each. They're likely worth what you pay for them, but still, for that price you can get extras and do all kinds of things with them.

Hey guys I've been reading this for a while now. I have just recently within the past 6 months gotten more into my plants. I bought my first tomato plants the opening day of Green City. I picked up sun gold, Green Zebra and Juliette. I have never grown a plant for fruit before. I live in an apartment so they are in containers. I have them all in 10 inch with 4 foot stakes right now. they have shot to about two and a half to three feet since i replanted. Any specific advise for indoor container growing?

Indoor???? Tomatoes?????

Ummmm....I'll just wish you the very best of luck. Tomatoes customarily need at least 6 hours of full sun per day, so you might have some serious problems. Watch out for pests - tomatoes seem so prone to infestation by whitefly, aphids, etc. when stressed by less than ideal growing conditions.

*crosses fingers!**

It also might help to supplement with grow lights.

I'm interested in hear how the plants do indoors. I would think that they would need that direct sunlight to fully produce fruit. If your plants are that size, they're probably flowering by now. Remember to gently shake the vines to promote pollination of the flowers. Outside, the breeze will usually do that, but inside - no breeze. If these plants keep growing, you'll have your hands full as the vines can grow up to 6-8 feet under ideal conditions within our growing season. Keep us posted and if you can, include some pics. Thanks.

CG,

Are you planning on transplanting them again? I ask because a 10 inch pot really is not enough room for a full grown indeterminate tomato. I grow both in the ground and in containers (outside, albeit) and indeterminates are happiest in containers over 16 inches, bigger if possible, so the tap root has plenty of room to develop. I know some container tomato growers who swear by half barrels.

Kim

I haven't planned on anything yet but this is helpful. I thought the 10 inch was too small but my girlfriends parents sadi it was good. I have a back deck but it faces the north so I'm not sure how much sun it gets all day. Any bigger containers inside probably wouldn't work in my place. Any thouhts on the northern deck? As I said I have just recently starting growing anything, tht's why i'm so ignorant here.

Geo wrote:

The chicken wire is, let's say, 24" wide. It is set out plane parallel to the ground (hammock-like), suspended from at least 4, maybe 6 or 8, 2.5-ft tall stakes, so you have a chicken-wire 'rug' about 2.5-ft off the ground. Grow the tomato up through the center of the wire, or at either end, in the center of the width. Let it flop over onto the wire 'rug', and spread out.


I'm curious about how you space the plants growing them this way.

This year I built a bamboo cage that runs just inside our 4' x 8' raised beds. It's about 6' tall, with a bottom and a top cross piece all around, bottom about 18'' off the ground, top at the top of the 6'

Tomatoes planted by the vertical stakes, about 18'' apart (I know, I know, it's close, but it's worked for me).

Then I used some opened up bean fence, staked with some smaller bamboo stakes, to create another cage about 8'' inside the bamboo cage. It's about 4' high. I'm anticipating that the tomatoes will be easily trained up between the two cages, creating a wall of tomatoes. I've planted sunflowers in the center of the bed.

I do pinch out suckers, but have decided that this year I won't be so obsessive about it, I think the cages will allow for more "spread" than simple staking.

I'm anticipating that the tomatoes will be easily trained up between the two cages, creating a wall of tomatoes.

AnnieB, you ARE an optimist! The bigger 'maters get, the more unruly they become! But keep us posted...

As for how I space the plants, like I (think) I said, this method eats up a lot of space. I give each plant about 2' x 6' of chicken wire, spacing the rectangles 18"-2' so I can move among them. Productivity is excellent (astounding, actually), so you don't need many.

And I'm with you on not being a 'pinching-off' slave...

Geo