We have had a veggie garden for a few years now-surrounded by neighbors' well manicured lawns. It is our 'side'yard so our poor neighbors see viney tomato and cuke plants as well as other non-ornamental onions, celery, carrots, watermelon etc. We make sure that they know that they can pick whatever they want-whenever they want without asking. Everything is organic and we do try to compost kitchen scraps. It is a really ugly garden but we have had a wonderful bounty. Our herb garden is next to our house and the sage plant gets really big. Chives and basil are pretty but dill weed is not so good looking. I think it would be hard to make a veggie garden front lawn beautiful.

Elfin, you have watermelons? That's interesting. I tried them last year and got two softball-sized melons that tasted not so good. How has your luck been with them?

This was our second attempt. The watermelons were slightly smaller than a soccerball. We got the small start from either Jewel or Sears. We had a yield of 3-4. The vines were really long and got tangled with the tomato vines and were choked out a bit. As the vines withered the melons stopped growing. They were surprisingly sweet given the smallish size and were indeed ripe. We are trying again this year and will plan to keep an eye out for the vines and give them a wide berth. We have had no luck in growing corn. The fauna seem to eat the seeds!

Watermelons are pretty easy, but need 100% sun.

100 percent sun is really hard in Chicagoland suburbia where houses are close to each other, wooden fences, tree cutting bans and lots are small. We both work full time and have two kids that demand our time but we still try. We have had really good luck with celery,onions, brussel sprouts, lettuce and tomatos. One year we planted tomatillos and the damned things keep coming back-choking out the other plants!

Elfin wrote:One year we planted tomatillos and the damned things keep coming back-choking out the other plants!

Aren't tomatillos amazing? I got two sickly plants last week from a friend/gardener, and they've revived, aggressively sending out new shoots and spouting flowers. They are the Godzillas of the Garden.

I've had tomatillo volunteers make their way from the backyard garden to the front! The only problem with the volunteers is that they tend to get smaller as years go by -- it's the ones too small to pick that are more likely to be left on the vine come frost.

The other "can't kill it" I have is mustard. I planted it once -- once! -- four or five years ago, before my addition was put on. A few (tasty) plants grew during construction at the edges of the area where dug-out dirt was dumped, and they've moved further with passing years -- just outside the backyard fence, and now through a crack in the driveway in front of the garage. I don't get much, but a young leaf added to a sandwich or burger is great (it's an outstanding foil for bleu cheese).

Oh, and oregano: plant it in a pot, if you don't want it all over your property.

Sage comes back year after year; requires almost no attention; and I eat just about all of it that comes up (mostly fried in butter for eggs, pasta, or just nibbling).

You want hard-to-kill?? Do not EVER plant 1) horseradish; and/or 2) Jerusalem artichokes. Both just keep on giving, they really do. I solved that problem only when I sold the house and moved...

Geo

Another 'can not kill -and moves everywhere' is mint. Do not plant unless surrounded by cement. I can't make mojitos fast enough to keep up!!

Round-Up made Monsanto billions for a reason.

Teatpuller, I've got a professional applicator's license (well, I had one, until I sold my vineyard), I know what glyphosphate (we buy the generic) can do, and how to make it do it. I also keep grapes in my back yard, three dozen of them, and I can put glyphosphate down and not even come close to touching the grapes. Like the knife thrower at the carny!

And I'm here to tell you, don't grow horseradish. Trust me on this.

Geo

Geo wrote:Teatpuller, I've got a professional applicator's license (well, I had one, until I sold my vineyard), I know what glyphosphate (we buy the generic) can do, and how to make it do it. I also keep grapes in my back yard, three dozen of them, and I can put glyphosphate down and not even come close to touching the grapes. Like the knife thrower at the carny!

And I'm here to tell you, don't grow horseradish. Trust me on this.

Geo

the scientist in me is tempted to grow it just to try to kill it.

Beef over front yard beefsteaks (tomatoes)

It's not a dog barking at night, says the bemused Northbrook gardener, so why would anyone complain about her tomato garden?

But those beefsteaks are growing in the front yard -- and in a community where many lawns could be used as putting greens, it's been noticed.

"We started to get calls from neighbors," said Thomas Poupard, Northbrook's director of planning, adding that the garden doesn't fit the community's regulations for front yard use.

...

Cathy2 wrote:Beef over front yard beefsteaks (tomatoes)

It's not a dog barking at night, says the bemused Northbrook gardener, so why would anyone complain about her tomato garden?

But those beefsteaks are growing in the front yard -- and in a community where many lawns could be used as putting greens, it's been noticed.

"We started to get calls from neighbors," said Thomas Poupard, Northbrook's director of planning, adding that the garden doesn't fit the community's regulations for front yard use.

...

Well, of course something like this is inevitable because so many people are just fucked up busybodies. The arbitrary and irrational personal preference expressed by some a-hole neighbor for a lawn over tomatoes is laughable. On a broader level, for a resident to complain about another person's yard is just sad. And when you consider the fact that a lawn is about the most unnatural and wasteful use of land imaginable, it makes the whole thing even sadder. I live in the burbs and have a (rather pathetic) vegetable and herb garden in my front yard because it faces south. I wonder -- but really don't care -- if it's annoying any of my neighbors.

=R=

The saga continues ... Northbrook front-yard gardener brings some of her crop to Village Board ... But the debate continues to grow

Dora Lyakhovetsky walked to the microphone at the front of the Northbrook Village Board Room Tuesday evening carrying a basket.

“I have this for you,” she said. “It’s wonderful.”

In the basket were tomatoes from her garden — a garden that has caused a stir in her Northbrook neighborhood.

She attended the village board meeting with her son, Alex Lyakhovetsky, and Northbrook resident Lee Goodman, who addressed the trustees about what he saw as an attempt by the “pretty police” to regulate the appearance of private property.

“This isn’t a garden dispute — this is a neighborhood dispute,” said Goodman, who had circulated a petition in the neighborhood trying to drum up support for Lyakhovetsky’s front yard garden on the 2700 block of Shannon Drive.

Somewhat of a community activist, Goodman told the board his petitioning job had never been so easy. The two people who objected most strenuously to Lyakhovetsky’s garden, he said, did so because they did not like her.

...

Front yard gardner cited and heading to trial.

Cathy2 wrote:Front yard gardner cited and heading to trial.

Didn't envision that at all. I still wouldn't want her in my neighborhood, but it's certainly less offensive than the woman in my neighborhood who's growing wildflowers on her lawn. Total train wreck.

We've got a wildflower-grower too, but she had the courtesy to put up a sign "Native Wildflowers" where all passers-by can see it. Somehow deflects a bit of the criticism.

Geo

Geo wrote:We've got a wildflower-grower too, but she had the courtesy to put up a sign "Native Wildflowers" where all passers-by can see it. Somehow deflects a bit of the criticism.

Geo

Our neighbor's is neither ordered enough to be a conventional garden nor random enough to be "natural." It's like she used one of those "cut-to-size" mats impregnated with random odd-lot seeds. Even my "never met a plant/flower I didn't like" wife thinks it's an eyesore.

The notion that every house needs to be surrounded by absolutely use, non-native, expensive, and resource wasting grass is one the biggest turn offs to the suburbs. God forbid that someone has well maintained planters of vegetables. That is going to destroy society!

jblth wrote:The notion that every house needs to be surrounded by absolutely use, non-native, expensive, and resource wasting grass is one the biggest turn offs to the suburbs. God forbid that someone has well maintained planters of vegetables. That is going to destroy society!

It's pretty much a "slippery slope" argument. Easier to ban all than to let one in. You let "neat and orderly" in and then "less neat and orderly" wants to push through. Before long it's pickup trucks on milk crates. Or menacing hordes of bunnies, raccoons and geese AND freakin' deer all over the place (there are actual "Deer Crossing" signs popping up on city streets).

I lived near the lakefront and we had a neighbor who maintained a "Sanford & Son" assortment of cast-offs in his backyard. We not only had to look at it from our deck but had to deal with the proliferation of urban wildlife that made it their habitat. That wasn't especially neighborly.

Cathy2 wrote:Front yard gardner cited and heading to trial.

There's a new wrinkle in this saga:

The charges for having an illegal vegetable garden were dropped without prejudice. But the city figured out that the homeowner did not have current dog tags for her pets and charged her with two misdemeanors. (The dogs were current on their shots, but didn't have the city license.) She bought the licenses and paid the late fee, but the city is not dropping these charges.

This story has received a lot of publicity. The homeowner has started a blog at http://oakparkhatesveggies.wordpress.com/

spinynorman99 wrote:

jblth wrote:The notion that every house needs to be surrounded by absolutely use, non-native, expensive, and resource wasting grass is one the biggest turn offs to the suburbs. God forbid that someone has well maintained planters of vegetables. That is going to destroy society!

It's pretty much a "slippery slope" argument. Easier to ban all than to let one in. You let "neat and orderly" in and then "less neat and orderly" wants to push through. Before long it's pickup trucks on milk crates. Or menacing hordes of bunnies, raccoons and geese AND freakin' deer all over the place (there are actual "Deer Crossing" signs popping up on city streets).

I lived near the lakefront and we had a neighbor who maintained a "Sanford & Son" assortment of cast-offs in his backyard. We not only had to look at it from our deck but had to deal with the proliferation of urban wildlife that made it their habitat. That wasn't especially neighborly.

The "urban farming" leading to increased "urban wildlife" does have its consequences.

http://www.time.com/time/nation/article ... 08,00.html

That article didn't make any link between gardening (front or back) and coyotes. Is your point that "urban farming" leads to more rodents, which leads to more coyotes? That seems like a stretch to me and, in any case, would apply as much to backyard gardening as frontyard gardening.

Spiny,

I read the article and I don't see the slightest implication made by the author that "urban farming" is responsible for the increasing population of near-in coyotes. Nor do I see how such an inference could be supported except by gestures and supposition, at least at present.

What is responsible for the increasing population, as the author implies, is the coyote's adaptive intelligence in learning how to make a living in among humans. Deer and racoons share this adaptability. The American deer herd today is many times the size of what it was when the first Europeans arrived on shore.

If coyotes can learn to feast on one of the worst urbanized pests--Canadian geese--I think they should be welcomed among us!

Geo

Darren72 wrote:That article didn't make any link between gardening (front or back) and coyotes. Is your point that "urban farming" leads to more rodents, which leads to more coyotes? That seems like a stretch to me and, in any case, would apply as much to backyard gardening as frontyard gardening.

I wasn't suggesting that the article made any link. I do believe the proliferation of rabbits, raccoons and deer led to the observable growth of the predator population. Not sure how that's a stretch. As for frontyard farming differing from backyard farming, aside from many backyards being fenced we're not talking about moving gardens from the backyard to the front, we're talking about adding frontyard gardens. Suggesting that added food sources for wildlife leads to added wildlife isn't a stretch at all.

I happen to live in a neighborhood (Northwest Side) where the sight of deer in one's backyard isn't unusual. We also have a fish pond that's been attacked on numerous occasions by raccoons (who also wreak havoc on the tomatoes). The rabbits are brazen and notorious (and more plentiful than I can recall) and regularly attack our neighbor's greens.

So suggesting that increased food supplies >> increased rodent/raccoon/etc. populations >> increased predators is not a huge logical leap.

Do you think that a sudden doubling of plantable area will have no (or only positive) effect on the ecosystem?

spinynorman99 wrote:So suggesting that increased food supplies >> increased rodent/raccoon/etc. populations >> increased predators is not a huge logical leap.

You are right. What is a logical leap is the connection between frontyard farming and this:

spinynorman99 wrote:Do you think that a sudden doubling of plantable area will have no (or only positive) effect on the ecosystem?

Doubling? How big is your front yard and how many of your neighbors are "farming" in their front yard?

Darren72 wrote:

spinynorman99 wrote:So suggesting that increased food supplies >> increased rodent/raccoon/etc. populations >> increased predators is not a huge logical leap.

You are right. What is a logical leap is the connection between frontyard farming and this:

spinynorman99 wrote:Do you think that a sudden doubling of plantable area will have no (or only positive) effect on the ecosystem?

Doubling? How big is your front yard and how many of your neighbors are "farming" in their front yard?

Due to the pond, deck and garage my front yard is larger than the rear. And people tend to not use up backyard entertaining space with garden planting, so existing gardens are probably using 10% of the average backyard space. But if it were permitted and even 5 or 6 people on the block took advantage of it then it would likely more than double what's already planted in backyards.

My point is when people say "what's the downside to letting homeowners use front lawn space for planting gardens?" it's not without potential consequences, so I can see why a municipality would want to rein in this type of activity.

Darren72 wrote:

spinynorman99 wrote:So suggesting that increased food supplies >> increased rodent/raccoon/etc. populations >> increased predators is not a huge logical leap.

You are right. What is a logical leap is the connection between frontyard farming and this:

spinynorman99 wrote:Do you think that a sudden doubling of plantable area will have no (or only positive) effect on the ecosystem?

Doubling? How big is your front yard and how many of your neighbors are "farming" in their front yard?

Seriously. Someone is going to have to cite legitimate peer-reviewed research to show this to be true. Is swapping your hosta for a tomato plant really going to increase the deer population? They already love to eat ornamental plants. Some vegetables, especially chiles, are dramatically less attractive to mammals as they evolved to not be eaten by them.