Wines

Here's a quote from the latest edition of Sante magazine, discussing wines made from the Tempranillo grape:

"Indeed, it seems already clear - at least to me - that only five varieties grown anywhere in the world are comparable to Tempranillo in potiential greatness: Cabernet Sauvignon, Merlot, Nebbiolo, Sangiovese and Syrah."

It surprised me that there wasn't a mention of Pinot Noir, or, for that matter, Zin.

And I won't mention the implied extreme bias against any white wine grape.

Anyone else want to contribute thoughts?

No listing of the greatest varietals is complete without Pinot Noirs included. Taking it a step farther, Pinot Noir should be heading the list! Not only are the Grand Crus of Burgundy argueably the finest reds (and whites) known to man, they are documentably the most expensive upon release.
Zinfandel is another matter. Please don't think I don't love the stuff- if anyone has a bottle of Jackass Hill they'd like to share, please email me Having said that, Zin is a johnny come lately in the worldwide scheme of things. and, as much as I enjoy it, I don't honestly believe it belongs in the Pantheon along with the Latours, La Tache's, LaLas of Guigal, Vega Sicilias, etc. of the wine world.
As far as whites bias goes, there's an old saying that goes "all wine would be red if it could". Apparently there are still some unfortunates who have never experienced fois gras with a glass of d'Yquem, or spicy Thai with an Alsacian Grwurztraminer. Quel dommage!

john@thebar wrote:No listing of the greatest varietals is complete without Pinot Noirs included.
Zin is a johnny come lately in the worldwide scheme of things. and, as much as I enjoy it, I don't honestly believe it belongs in the Pantheon along with the Latours, La Tache's, LaLas of Guigal, Vega Sicilias, etc. of the wine world.
As far as whites bias goes, there's an old saying that goes "all wine would be red if it could". Apparently there are still some unfortunates who have never experienced fois gras with a glass of d'Yquem, or spicy Thai with an Alsacian Grwurztraminer. Quel dommage!

I surprise myself; I think I agree with you basically completely. Although I've had Zins that were far better than so-so Cabs, in terms of potential, I guess Zin is slightly below first tier. I'd rate it alongside Tempranillo.

And I love Gewurtz ... I wish it'd be on more restaurant wine lists.

nr706 wrote:Although I've had Zins that were far better than so-so Cabs, in terms of potential, I guess Zin is slightly below first tier. I'd rate it alongside Tempranillo.

If by "potential" you mean aging potential, I (and I'd wager 99.9% of the real experts, too) agree that Cab Sauv is far superior to Zin or almost any other red grape for aging. That said, so what? I rather enjoy wine when it's young. I've had aged Bordeaux and California Cabs, and I appreciate them very much for their depth of character, etc. But day-in, day-out, I'd rather listen to Copland than Beethoven, I'd rather read Nicholson Baker than Proust, I'd rather watch Mystery Science Theater 3000 than Citizen Kane, and I'd rather drink Zin than a Gran Cru Bordeaux (but don't raise that challenge with Burgundy, I'm not so confident of my response!) Anyway, that's my preference, and Zin is the king of young red wine grapes.

I do not know much about Sante Magazine, but leaving out Pinot Noir? That is an unbeleivable omission. It must have been a mistake, or the author is an idiot.

Zinfandel is not considered a premier varietal. This does not mean that there are not some good zins produced.

Cheers,
Al

JimInLoganSquare wrote:If by "potential" you mean aging potential, I (and I'd wager 99.9% of the real experts, too) agree that Cab Sauv is far superior to Zin or almost any other red grape for aging. That said, so what? I rather enjoy wine when it's young. I've had aged Bordeaux and California Cabs, and I appreciate them very much for their depth of character, etc. But day-in, day-out, I'd rather listen to Copland than Beethoven, I'd rather read Nicholson Baker than Proust, I'd rather watch Mystery Science Theater 3000 than Citizen Kane, and I'd rather drink Zin than a Gran Cru Bordeaux (but don't raise that challenge with Burgundy, I'm not so confident of my response!) Anyway, that's my preference, and Zin is the king of young red wine grapes.

"potential" doesn't necessarily mean aging potential, although I do think most great reds will age rather gracefully. (I have a magnum of Alicante Bouchet from Lynfred - unarguably the finest winery in the western suburbs of Chicago - which should age rather nicely.) On the other extreme, I don't get excited much over super-young wines like Beaujolais nouveau, the ultimate young red wine - tastes too much like Kool-Aid for me.

I don't think a discussion of this sort can be carried on coherently without an agreement on terms. What do the orig. writer and subsequent posters mean by "potential?" As has been pointed out, are we talking about aging, or price obtained on the market (which is how the orig. Bordeaux classifications of 1855 were derived), or just ineffable "goodness" or what?

That said, I agree with Al: The omission of Pinot Noir, however one defines one's terms, is either accident or idiocy. And Zin, however satisfying and useful a wine it can be, simply does not achieve, at the high end, what these other varietals do. (At the low and middle ends of the spectrum of course, a good zin can certainly hold it's own against a good chianti, et. al.)

Finally, I have not tasted the very greatest examples of either burgundy or tempranillo, but none of the termpranillo I have experienced gets anywhere near the B+ - A- burgundies I have had. I have enjoyed many Spanish wines, principally Riojas, but have yet to experience transcendence in a Spanish wine as I have in Barolo, Chianti, Burgundy, Rhone and Bordeaux.

I'm not sure how much value we get out of ranking grapes. (Where does that magazine rank among wine magazines, BTW?) But count me as among those who thinks tempranillos can be right up there. In terms of aging potential, the great Gran Reservas stand tall.

Marques de Murrieta Ygay's from the 70's are magnificent. These wines can also be an incredible bargain. Keefer's was selling a 1989 that was stunning for 40 bucks when the restaurant opened, and the wine was briefly available at Sam's 3-4 years ago for not much less.

Anyway, I like em all.

JeffB wrote:I'm not sure how much value we get out of ranking grapes. (Where does that magazine rank among wine magazines, BTW?)

I agree that there's not much value, really, in rating grapes - I remember a really interesting wine which I had from Monterey, Calif called "Chutzpah;" it was 100% Thompson Seedless. But I'm still surprised Pinot Noir didn't make their list.

Sante isn't a wine magazine per se, it's a trade magazine directed at restaurant management. More info here:

http://www.santemagazine.com/

Those of you who posted here might enjoy the movie "Sideways." I thought it was great.

janeyb wrote:Those of you who posted here might enjoy the movie "Sideways." I thought it was great.

I saw it too. Best movie I've seen in a long time. Memories of it still stick with me - a sign of a good film. But as a Saab driver, I have to take exception to the Saab-abusive parts of the film. (Comes right after "Got your seat belt on?")

Page 18 of the Dec. 15 Evanston Round Table is an ad for D&D Finer Foods.Four wines advertised in the $6.99 to $9.99 range..

On the lighter side,did you hear about the wine for those with bladder problems?Called Pinot More.I can't take credit for that.

D&D
825 Noyes
Evanston,Il.
847-475-4344

john@thebar wrote: As far as whites bias goes, there's an old saying that goes "all wine would be red if it could". Apparently there are still some unfortunates who have never experienced fois gras with a glass of d'Yquem, or spicy Thai with an Alsacian Grwurztraminer. Quel dommage!

John,

I had a 2-oz pour of Chateau d`Yquem with foie gras during a tasting dinner at Gary Danko a few years ago, spectacular. That, and a paring of a very musty Gruner Veltliner paired with huitlacoche at Topolobampo, were earth moving.

Interestingly, the Gruner Veltliner tasted off by itself, the wine came slightly before the huitlacoche, but when combined with the huitlacoche the result was flabbergastingly delicious.

Grwurztraminer is a favorite with Thai, but I also enjoy Gruner and Riesling among others. I recently brought a Gavi to Spoon Thai, which was quite complimentary.

Enjoy,
Gary

Vignobles or the classic varietals are as follows:

White:

Chardonnay
Chenin Blanc
Gewurztraminer
Muscat
Riesling
Sauvingnon Blanc
Semillon
Viognier

Red:

Cabernet Sauvignon
Grenache Noir
Merlot
Nebbiolo
Pinot Noir
Sangiovese
Syrah
Tempranillo
Zinfandel

You can argue the inclusion/exclusion of some of these from the list. However, probably the most important of the bunch are Chardonnay, Riesling, Cabernet Sauvignon, Pinot Noir, Nebbiolo, and Syrah. Pinot Noir and Riesling should never be excluded from the list of Noble varietals and some would consider (add me to the list) Riesling to be the greatest white wine grape in the world.