David:

Concerning consumption of the lees, the general belief among the people I knew in Belgium was that drinking that stuff will likely, how shall I say, tend to open up the sluices at the hinter end. Now, perhaps that's only a folk belief but after extensive research with these beers, I would have to attribute some validity to it. Of course, my symptoms could have been 'psychosomatic', as it were...

Or perhaps it was the strain on the digestive tract caused by substantial beer consumption capped off with a dead-of-night or early morning visit to the fritkot for a large cone of fries with mayonnaise...

Antonius

This is magnificent thread! I don't know anything about lambics and not too much about beer (although I have drunk my fair share). Thanks for the tremendous info

jpreiser wrote:In Belgium, the beer is always decanted off the lees (note exception below). The goal is to leave the sediment behind without leaving too much beer.
<snip>
BTW, this is how one serves homebrew or other bottle-conditioned beers with the exception styles such as witbier or weissbier. (i.e. decant off the lees)

So the exceptions - witbier and weissbiers are not decanted and are mixed with the sediment, correct?
I was shown once how to pour Heffeweissen - place the glass (tall narrower bottom pilsner, not stein) over the mouth of the bottle, and in a swift motion turn it over so that the bottle is upside down. The beer will still be in the bottle with the mouth closed against the bottom of the glass. Then slowly lift the mouth of the bottle so that the beer starts filling the glass. The bottle is slowly lifted as the liquid level in the glass increases. I was told that this allows for the yeast to mix in with the beer and not be only in the head. Is this correct?

sazerac wrote:
So the exceptions - witbier and weissbiers are not decanted and are mixed with the sediment, correct?
I was shown once how to pour Heffeweissen - place the glass (tall narrower bottom pilsner, not stein) over the mouth of the bottle, and in a swift motion turn it over so that the bottle is upside down. The beer will still be in the bottle with the mouth closed against the bottom of the glass. Then slowly lift the mouth of the bottle so that the beer starts filling the glass. The bottle is slowly lifted as the liquid level in the glass increases. I was told that this allows for the yeast to mix in with the beer and not be only in the head. Is this correct?

You're correct. The word "hefe" means yeast and the intent is to drink these beers with the yeast included. The type of yeast strain used to produce these beers is what creates the banana, clove, bubble-gum, lemony flavors & aromas distinctive of this style. Consuming the yeast can intensify them.

I've personally never gotten the hang of the traditionan weizen pour but that's how it's been described to me.

Pouring a witbier is a little different though. The beer is usuall poured normally (almost decanted) until a couple ounces remain. Then the bottle is swirled until the yeast is kicked up and the remaining liquid is then poured into the glass. Hoegaarden even has a diagram of this process on every bottle.

The alternative to both methods is to gently roll the bottle on the counter or table for a couple seconds before opening. You don't want to shake it too much or you'll get a gusher but just enough to rouse the sediment.

Joe

sazerac wrote:I was shown once how to pour Heffeweissen - place the glass (tall narrower bottom pilsner, not stein) over the mouth of the bottle, and in a swift motion turn it over so that the bottle is upside down. The beer will still be in the bottle with the mouth closed against the bottom of the glass. Then slowly lift the mouth of the bottle so that the beer starts filling the glass. The bottle is slowly lifted as the liquid level in the glass increases.

In the book German Wheat Beer by Eric Warner, he describes two methods of pouring a weissbier, "The Master Pour", and the "Flashy nightclub bartender's pour". Guess which one you've described.

The master pour is described as so: "Hold the bottle in the dominant hand and the glass in the other hand. Tip the bottle as far as possible without letting any beer flow out, and tip the glass slightly downward and bring it over the mouth of the tilted bottle. Now slowly tilt the glass upright and begin decanting the beer slowly down the side of the glass with the mouth of the bottle as far down the glass as possible, without ever letting it come in contact with the beer or foam. When done properly, there should be little foam on the surface of the beer. Once the glass is almost full, the bottle can be raised a couple of inches from the rim and the remaining beer can be poured more vigorously to raise the head."

Prost!

Tim

Hanssens Artisanaal Oude Gueuze

“Oh my god that’s some funky s*it”
Beastie Boys, “Root Down”

The Beasties' immortal words sprang to mind as I reeled from my first taste of Hanssen’s Artisanaal Oude Gueuze.

Gueuze, in case you don’t know, is a blend of young and old lambics, aged for several years. I picked up two bottles of Hanssens at Sam’s yesterday ($10 each).

This is a headless brew. Pour it in, vigorously or slowly, and the slim foam slips away almost immediately. This is not a big problem for me, but it’s a little odd…though odder things are yet to come.

The scent is very strong, kind of how I’d imagine skunk urine would smell.

It probably doesn’t taste quite so bad as anything excreted by a rodent, more like apple cider vinegar with notes of isopropyl alcohol and vomit. It stings, it smarts, it stinks, but it’s not a bit bitter…just sour and acrid. It’s also, dare I say, just a little bit exciting, perhaps in the sense that eating hot peppers is exciting (such “constrained risk,” as the Great McGee would say, titillates us while simultaneously assuring us that even though what we’re consuming seems toxic, we'll probably live through it…Hurrah!).

No effervescence, very slight mouthfeel, which is fine, because the flavor is so pungent, potent and overpowerful, you don’t want anything else going on behind your teeth at the same time. No hoppiness, but plenty harsh, it hammers the palate with an unremitting take-no-prisoners drumbeat of satisfaction-defying acidity.

How could such a beverage ever quench a thirst? It made my throat feel dry, parched and in strange pain.

I had it cool, I had it warm, I had it solo, I had it with smoked chicken a la GWiv, but try as I might, I could not find a way to get it down easily and enjoyably, though as the picture below may indicate, I drank the whole damn bottle. I think I actually started to cry just a little with the last glass…and not because I was sorry to see it go.

David Hammond wrote:Hanssens Artisanaal Oude Gueuze
This is a headless brew. Pour it in, vigorously or slowly, and the slim foam slips away almost immediately. This is not a big problem for me, but it’s a little odd…though odder things are yet to come.

One quick question - was the beer glass washed in a dishwasher containing Jet-Dry or a similar substance? They're notorious head-killers.

nr706 wrote:

David Hammond wrote:Hanssens Artisanaal Oude Gueuze
This is a headless brew. Pour it in, vigorously or slowly, and the slim foam slips away almost immediately. This is not a big problem for me, but it’s a little odd…though odder things are yet to come.

One quick question - was the beer glass washed in a dishwasher containing Jet-Dry or a similar substance? They're notorious head-killers.

NR706, very interesting question...and the answer is Yes. The beer glass was washed in a dishwasher with Electrosol, which contains Jet-Dry. Strangely, all other beers (from Lite to Hoegaarden) seem to give up a nice head in glasses washed with the same detergent...though lack of head was the least of my problems with Hanssens.

Hammond

Geuze Boon: That’s What I’m Talking About

Tonight I had the pleasure of sampling a pre-dinner aperitif of Geuze Boon, a truly mellow brew, particularly when compared to some recent geuze I’ve sampled (http://lthforum.com/bb/viewtopic.php?t=3998&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=30).

Several here have mentioned Boon, and this is the first time I believe I’ve had it. A twelve oz. bottle (2002 vintage) was about $6.00 at Sam’s.

Geuze, as we’ve said, is a blend of old and young lambics; the older usually being flatter and the young being somewhat sweeter. In this Boon, there’s an excellent balance. It’s sour, or maybe more tart, but in no way overwhelmingly vinegary or sharp, just full of flavor and very refreshing, with some carbonation. Aged in oak, but not terribly oaky. It's balanced.

If anyone reading this has yet to try a geuze or a lambic, this is a good one to start with: it’s way different than your average beer -- or even a Belgian ale -- but it's not as challenging as some of the others in its class. It’s soft and flavorful and nice. You could serve it to your mom, and she might even like it.

Boon, Aalst, het Pajottenland, Geuze en de Geuzen

David:

Reading your post on Boon's geuze I was reminded of one of my favourite Flemish authors of the 20th century, Louis Paul Boon. The writer was a native of Aalst in Oost-Vlaanderen, to the northwest and just over the provincial border from the Pajottenland (in Vlaams-Brabant), almost precisely halfway between Brussel/Bruxelles and Gent; given that the name combination "Louis Paul" also occurs in the family of the Pajottenland lambiek brewers (one of their products is so named after one of the owners), I can't help but wonder whether there is any direct connexion between writer and brewers.

Boon the writer was very politically engaged, with socialist and anarchist leanings. His political beliefs and concerns clearly come to expression in his works, of which perhaps the best known in this country (albeit quite indirectly) is the novel out of which the excellent Flemish film Daens ultimately developed. The subject of that film is the heroic effort of Peter Daens to improve the living conditions of the badly exploited workers of Aalst in the late 19th century.

Incidentally, one of Boon's major works is Het Geuzenboek, which has nought to do with beer. Rather it is an historical work that covers the turbulent period in the Low Countries in the 16th century during which religious and political dissatisfaction led to open revolt against the closely allied Church and the "Spanish" -- more accurately, Habsburg -- government that then ruled the Low Countries. The Geuzen were Dutch-speaking* guerrillas who fought against the Spanish/Habsburgian government.

Leve Vlaanderen! Leve de Geuze(n)!

Antonius

* So they are generally remembered, though I'm sure some spoke French as their first language.

Oud Beersel Oude Geuze Vieille

Last night, ending my weeklong quest to sample as many lambics as possible, I opened a 12.7 oz bottle of Oud Beersel Oude Geuze Vieille
(Sam’s, about $6.00), a favorite of jpreiser and pancake, and thus certainly worthy of sampling.

This medium-bodied, yellowy amber-colored lambic, though better than some, lacks the subtlety of the Boon Geuze; it tends toward the sour, without the balance of the Boon Geuze, and it is very dry.

jpreiser wrote:Boon isn't listing his name on the newer bottles. He basically bought the blendery to keep one of the big (and crappy) guys from taking it over and ruining the brand before discontinuing it (as was Eylenbosch, among others). Whenever he makes a batch, it's to the Oud Beersel recipe and process which differs from Boon's in some manner he wouldn't talk about so I think it's viewed as a separate brand.

Joe, I wonder if Boon Geuze has a little extra yeast (or sugar) added somewhere in the fermentation process for a touch more sweetness. It’s my understanding that Oud Beersel has no added yeast or sugar.

Mouthfeel is not at all heavy, slightly lighter than I prefer.

The label announces that it is the “white sparking wine of the beer world,” which I find to be somewhat misguided marketing language in that the white wine drinkers of the world would probably not like this beverage much…though it has a vinous nose, the taste is significantly more tart than any white wine I would usually drink.

This geuze is apparently worthy of more cellering – the label says “best before” sometime time in 2022 (!). No problemo.

A, what do you think explains the different spelling of “Geuze” and “Gueuze.” I’m guessing maybe one is an older, archaic version.

David Hammond wrote:
A, what do you think explains the different spelling of “Geuze” and “Gueuze.” I’m guessing maybe one is an older, archaic version.

DH:

Geuze is the Dutch spelling. In Dutch, the <g> is pronounced as a velar fricative, voiceless and very raspy in the north but in the south, whence this stuff hails, as a not at all raspy, voiced velar fricative.

Gueuze, with the <u> inserted after the <g-> is the French spelling thereof; this <-u-> is purely a spelling device with no independent value, indicating that the intial <g-> is to be pronounced in French as a stop, i.e., as a 'hard' <g->, as in French guerre, guide, etc., and not as a voiced fricative, as in French gens, geste, etc.

The <eu> of both French and Dutch indicates a front rounded mid vowel, similar to the German ö.

N.B. The name of this particular product ignores the spelling difference and uses the Dutch spelling to stand for both, flanked to the left with the Dutch adjective oude 'old' and to the right the French equivalent vieille. Such seeming inconsistencies in commercial usage are, I suspect, not all that rare.

Since geuze is made in the Pajottenland, in Dutch-speaking Vlaams-Brabant, I think the Dutch spelling is the more appropriate one but English sources tend, I believe, to favour the French spelling.

Santé/skol!

A

Antonius wrote:N.B. The name of this particular product ignores the spelling difference and uses the Dutch spelling to stand for both, flanked to the left with the Dutch adjective oude 'old' and to the right the French equivalent vieille. Such seeming inconsistencies in commercial usage are, I suspect, not all that rare.

I knew you'd know...thanks.

About the linguistic phenomenon you mention above, I wouldn’t be surprised if we see similar instances of it in the US. As Spanish becomes a full-fledged second national language, we may see configurations such as:

Creamy Y0GURT Cremoso

I think that’s the principle at work here; you have the basic name (not a brand name, but an almost generic name of the type of thing: geuze or yogurt), flanked by qualifying descriptors in two languages common to a region and both probably known to most speakers in the region.

In a way, having "oude" and "vielle" seems a courteous nod to different market segments (Dutch and French).

Hammond

To those who like the idea of a framboise lambic, but don't like the way Lindeman's tries to pull it off (or Liefman's), you can go the non-lambic route and pick up a bottle of New Glarus Raspberry Tart. I'm sure it's nothing new to a lot of folks here, but it's really an excellent beer. It has the sourness of a kriek with the nice raspberry flavor of a framboise.

I picked it up at Woodman's in Kenosha for $6/750ml.

gleam wrote:To those who like the idea of a framboise lambic, but don't like the way Lindeman's tries to pull it off (or Liefman's), you can go the non-lambic route and pick up a bottle of New Glarus Raspberry Tart. I'm sure it's nothing new to a lot of folks here, but it's really an excellent beer. It has the sourness of a kriek with the nice raspberry flavor of a framboise.

I picked it up at Woodman's in Kenosha for $6/750ml.

New Glarus Raspberry Tart is great, but also look out for the New Glarus Wisconsin Belgian Red, which is the brewery's most celebrated beer. I've got a bottle of each in the cellar right now and, I must say, their cherry beer is unbelievable in its nose and flavor of fresh Door County cherries. I would say that it's even a bit overwhelming, but everyone I know who has tried this beer loves it.

As for the main discussion, my favorite Gueuze is the Hanssens Oude Gueuze that David Hammond so beautifully described . (Also happens to be the first one I've tried, so I've been a bit disappointed to find that not all Gueuzes are this stinky and sour.) I describe it to newcomers as carbonated sauerkraut juice--that's very much what this reminds me of. Served cold, I find it crisp, assertively acidic, light, and refreshing. Then again, I also like the (now hardly seen) Hungarian drink of pickle juice and soda water as a summertime thirst quencher, so perhaps my palate's a little off-center to begin with.

A good source for gueuzes, for those who live closer to the Southwest Side is Archer Liquors on 5996 South Archer. They currently stock four gueuzes: Lindemann's Cuvee Renee, Hanssens Oude Gueuze, Cantillon Organic Gueuze, and another one that doesn't appear to be on their website whose name I forget, as well as several fruit lambics. (Along with the typical Lindemann's Framboise, Peche, and Kriek, they've got Lindemann's Pomme (apple--it's not on their website for some reason, but I've seen it at the store), St. Louis Kriek & Peche, and Floris Kriek & Apple. I had the Lindemann's Pomme last week and, while crisp & clean, it reminded me too much of a sour apple Jolly Rancher to really want to drink it again. I'll just stick to the krieks and framboises if I'm feeling fruity.