vintage champagne was a little flat... return or not?

We bought and endulged in an '88 Veuve Clicquot "rare vintage" bottle a few weeks ago (no, it wasn't for crazy NYE drinking...). It was SO much more complex than the usual $35 bottle of Champagne, much much much better than NV yellow label alone. It was however a little on the flat side for a champagne, possibly due to it's age. it wasn't completely flat, it had some bubbles, but it didn't "feel" fizzy as much as a newer champagne would be. Is this normal? I don't really know how long ago the champagne was disgorged, but we had just bought the bottle when we drank it.

Would you return a $100+ bottle of champagne if it was somewhat flat when you opened it? I don't really know... We bought it at Sam's Club which has a pretty good return policy as it reads, though, so we're still contemplating if we return it because we don't know if it was "normal" or not. I've had old vintage champagnes that were not so flat, but I don't know enough to know if it's considered normal to be slightly flat on such an old bottle... (Though even though it's old, it shouldn't start getting flat until it has been disgorged after the 2nd fermentation, anyway, which was presumably recently, no?). Bought it at Sam's Club--did it sit on the shelf too long, stored improperly, etc? We did drink the whole bottle, but at the same time I wonder if it was not as good as it should have been...

What do you do in this situation, or if you get a bad bottle in general? i've always heard to return it and the distributor sucks it up. I think Sam's has a no questions asked type return policy, but if they didn't would they expect some sort of "proof" the bottle is bad, and if so how would you prove this?

Just to be clear, are you contemplating returning the empty bottle? I would think that even the most forgiving return policies would not include giving cash refunds for an empty bottle. By returning a bottle of wine, you are saying that there was something wrong with it enough that it was not suitable for drinking. Even if there might not have been any bubbles left in the bottle by the time you got back to Sam's, by bringing back an almost full bottle you are showing that you are sincere in thinking it was unacceptable.

I once bought a nice bottle of riesling for a gift, along with a bunch of other wines from Sam's. When I got home and opened my box, I noticed that the foil was missing from the riesling I had grabbed and that the wine was seeping a bit around the cork. I took it back, asking to exchange it for a bottle with the foil still on and was told, quite firmly, that there was nothing wrong with bottle and it would not be exchanged. Even when I explained it was purchased as a gift. I ended up buying a second bottle and drinking the seeping one (which, as it turns out, was perfectly fine). I don't know that my experience sheds any light on how Sam's is likely to respond to being presented with an empty bottle and being asked for $100+ dollars back, but I would guess you'd be walking out with bottle in hand.

Kristen

kl5 wrote:Just to be clear, are you contemplating returning the empty bottle? Kristen

yes, i was... their return policy is that they guarantee everything they sell, is it not? i'm not asking how to cheat a system, nor do I think I'm even "stretching" it... would i return a $20 bottle of champagne if I thought it was bad? no. but this is a $115 or so bottle.

to me the question is not whether or not the bottle should be empty upon return, i don't need to show them i did or didn't drink it all. the question is whether the bottle I got was "normal" in its qualities or if something was wrong with it.

further more, it would be illegal for them to require me to bring back a half full bottle, as i would be transporting open containers of alcohol. more over, i'm not going to go out of my way to transport a bottle of alcohol that might spill all over my car on the way (champagne=not easy to recork, but that's beside the point). not to mention the liquid itself would is of no value to them, they can't look at it a day or a week later and see that it's bad. they would have to dump it out themselves anyway, and it might even be seen as an inconvenience to them to have to do so.

also, just to be clear... this is sam's club not sam's wine store. i pay a membership fee to them, and their policy is 100% satisfaction with all products (full policy is here: http://www.samsclub.com/shopping/navigate.do?catg=6104 ...some exclusions are listed but alcohol/wine isn't one that is excluded from returns). judging by your experience, it sounds like you were taking it back to sam's wine not sam's club, and if it were sam's club and they were giving you flack for returning/exchanging an unopened bottle of wine, i would've asked for a manager. i'm not sure that someone working at the sam's club return counter would even have the expertise to begin to know a bottle that's missing the top foil was or wasn't "perfectly good"

were you talking about sam's club or sam's wine?

dddane wrote:also, just to be clear... this is sam's club not sam's wine store.

Ah, sorry. I read your post quickly and thought you were talking about Sam's Wine, not Sam's Club. Yes, the experience I related took place at Sam's Wine--and it was a manager I was speaking with. I was pretty mad at the time and thought he was being unreasonable. (It probably didn't help that I was 26 at the time, but looked more like an 18 year old.) If anything, it taught me to always look more closely at a bottle before I put it in the cart.

Kristen

dddane wrote:http://www.samsclub.com/shopping/navigate.do?catg=6104 ...some exclusions are listed but alcohol/wine isn't one that is excluded from returns).

But not everything excluded is listed. For example, I tried to return a cookbook, as the friend for whom I bought it already had a copy, and I was told that, because of copyright issues, books couldn't be returned. That doesn't mean you shouldn't try, but you might want to call first.

Also, about transporting open alcohol -- last time I heard, it's not illegal if it's in the trunk. It's only illegal if it's in the passenger compartment.

dddane wrote:We bought and endulged in an '88 Veuve Clicquot "rare vintage" bottle a few weeks ago
It was SO much more complex than the usual $35 bottle of Champagne, much much much better than NV yellow label alone. It was however a little on the flat side for a champagne, possibly due to it's age. it wasn't completely flat, it had some bubbles, but it didn't "feel" fizzy as much as a newer champagne would be. Is this normal?

Yes that would be a normal experience
By any chance could your stems have had any soap residue?
Nothing kill bubble quicker than a soapy stem.

FWIW, it sure sounds like you got something nice out of it.
"It was SO much more complex than the usual $35 bottle of Champagne"

If I was the buyer, I'd just chalk it up to a not so great bottle.

I have no problem returning wines but ONLY if I don't drink the bottle.
we have poured bad wine back in the bottle and put it in the trunk
(to avoid any "open container" problems)

good luck with you dilemma

mhill95149 wrote:By any chance could your stems have had any soap residue?

FWIW, it sure sounds like you got something nice out of it.

i washed the stems in the dishwasher and use jet dry... prior to pouring i rinsed the glasses out to be sure it was perfectly clean and then i dried them.. ooO well.

and yes we did get something nice out of it... it was a good bottle, but it didn't drink like a sparkling as much as a still wine...

this weekend when i was in sam's WINE (not club) i meant to ask one of their Champagne experts whether or not it's a normal or abnormal experience, but i forgot... :/

Many many champagnes are better than VC yellow label

We've returned bad bottles to Sam's Wine with no trouble. We bought 6 bottles, we opened 2 and they were cooked (as in got heated at some point). We returned 4 unopened and one opened, and we know we got money back on the 4 unopened, think we got money back on the opened one, and can't remember if we got money back on the 6th bottle. (It was a long time ago).

Yes, it is perfectly normal for Champagne to lose some of its fizz as it ages. I wouldn't even assume it was a not so great bottle, as it sounds like you enjoyed the taste. If you prefer more fizz, buy younger Champagnes. My personal preference is for older Champagne, but I buy them on release, then store them in a temperature controlled cellar.

leek wrote:Many many champagnes are better than VC yellow label

i tend to agree and wasn't referring to yellow label, my fav $35 bottle is probably Philliponait ... i can't spell it. bonus points to anyone who can... can barely pronounce it... they carry it at sam's wine occasionally (i bought a rose of it actually over the weekend to take to a friends...) and i've seen it at Wine Discount Center, too.

i don't mind yellow label... it's just i think it's become a bit of a cliched "designer" champagne because everyone easily remembers/recognizes it, and it's gone up about $5/bottle in the last yr alone just about everywhere, and i have to wonder why..

FrankP wrote:Yes, it is perfectly normal for Champagne to lose some of its fizz as it ages. I wouldn't even assume it was a not so great bottle, as it sounds like you enjoyed the taste. If you prefer more fizz, buy younger Champagnes.

thanks, frank and mhill :0 this is what i was most concerned with and up until you said it I don't know that anyone else did really...

I did Google the answer, but as we are not supposed to post Googled information here as fact, I did not post it. Thank goodness for FrankP!

http://www.google.com/search?q=Champagne+age+lose+carbonation

The first hit is from Wine Spectator's Dr. Vinny who says:

A well-aged sparkling wine will lose some of its carbonation, turn a deeper color, and the flavors will evolve into dried fruit, nutty, honey and toasty flavors. But you have to be good to Champagne, as it's notoriously fussy as it ages. Keep it away from light and temperature fluctuation!

dddane wrote:

leek wrote:Many many champagnes are better than VC yellow label

i tend to agree and wasn't referring to yellow label, my fav $35 bottle is probably Philliponait ... i can't spell it. bonus points to anyone who can... can barely pronounce it... they carry it at sam's wine occasionally (i bought a rose of it actually over the weekend to take to a friends...) and i've seen it at Wine Discount Center, too.

i don't mind yellow label... it's just i think it's become a bit of a cliched "designer" champagne because everyone easily remembers/recognizes it, and it's gone up about $5/bottle in the last yr alone just about everywhere, and i have to wonder why..

The Yellow Bottle is a bit of a cliche, but the La Grande Dame is usually worth the price. I've had the 1989 and 1990 and both were worth the price paid. I'm looking forward to drinking the 1998.

My two cents:
Assuming you drank the entire bottle, rather than discarding the contents, I think it would be rather gauche of you to reuest a full refund. After all, you wouldn't eat an entire entre at a restaurant and than request a refund, would you?
If you truly were disappointed with the champagne, perhaps a request for a partial refund or a discount on a future purchase would be in order.
I bet that bottle still tasted better than the swill I normally drink.

Cynthia wrote:

dddane wrote:http://www.samsclub.com/shopping/navigate.do?catg=6104 ...some exclusions are listed but alcohol/wine isn't one that is excluded from returns).

But not everything excluded is listed. For example, I tried to return a cookbook, as the friend for whom I bought it already had a copy, and I was told that, because of copyright issues, books couldn't be returned. That doesn't mean you shouldn't try, but you might want to call first.

Also, about transporting open alcohol -- last time I heard, it's not illegal if it's in the trunk. It's only illegal if it's in the passenger compartment.

Yes you can return cookbooks. "Copyright" is a total dodge. I suspect to get a good price Sam's agrees not to return any books (sold or unsold) to a publisher. Thus they cannot get a refund themselves. You were lied to, my friend.

My ex and I got two bottles of Champagne for our wedding, one Dom and one Veuve Clicquot. The Dom was excellent. The VC was vinegar. We even tried to make mimosas so as not to waste it, but even then it was undrinkable. And just tonight I dumped the majority of a bottle of Merlot down the drain. I just bought it today at Sam's Club. They must have stored it in a trailer for 6 months or so. Lesson learned.