Question for those who smoke (food, not tobacco)

I am planning on making my own pastrami soon. I will be doing this in a hot smoker (even though I am told it is best to cold-smoke pastrami, but hot will work).

I am having trouble getting a definitive answer on what the ideal temperature should be inside the smoker.

Does anyone have any info or experience with this procedure?

You should be fine with anything between 225-300 degrees. The primary difference will be time in cooking. I usually try to cook around 250 degrees. I"m not particularly aware of any ideal temperature. The only real effect would be in the time it takes to get done.

Did you start from a brisket and corn it. If you bought a brisket flat it would be a good idea to put a pork butt above it for basting. Corned beef flats have a tendency to dry out.

I don't think cold smoking (which I consider under 200 degrees) would work.

Bruce wrote:You should be fine with anything between 225-300 degrees. The primary difference will be time in cooking. I usually try to cook around 250 degrees. I"m not particularly aware of any ideal temperature. The only real effect would be in the time it takes to get done.

Thanks. I think I'd probably like to stay towards the lower end of that range. The longer cook time will produce a more tender result, no?

Bruce wrote:
Did you start from a brisket and corn it. If you bought a brisket flat it would be a good idea to put a pork butt above it for basting. Corned beef flats have a tendency to dry out.

I will indeed be starting from a brisket that I will be brining. Unfortunately my homemade smoker won't have the space for two items like that.

Bruce wrote:
I don't think cold smoking (which I consider under 200 degrees) would work.

I didn't think so either, but I remember reading that somewhere. Must have been a bad source.

Where did you hear cold smoking a brisket to make pastrami is preferred or will produce a more tender result? Commercial smokers will start at a low temperature and slowly crank it up to reduce shrinkage which is a really big deal from an economic standpoint. From a flavor standpoint, shrinkage is highly desirable and produces a concentrated, rich flavor. The trick with any form of brisket is to gelatinize the collagen without driving off the moisture. I fully agree with Bruce about 250F being a good target.

Your biggest challenge will be knowing when it is done. A sharp-point fork should easily pierce the flat all the way through. Don't be tempted to take it out of the smoker until it reaches that point. Another tip: always carve against the grain. Make a notch in corner of the flat before smoking, because afterward smoking, it can be hard to find the grain without several experimental slices.

Bill/SFNM wrote:Where did you hear cold smoking a brisket to make pastrami is preferred or will produce a more tender result? Commercial smokers will start at a low temperature and slowly crank it up to reduce shrinkage which is a really big deal from an economic standpoint. From a flavor standpoint, shrinkage is highly desirable and produces a concentrated, rich flavor. The trick with any form of brisket is to gelatinize the collagen without driving off the moisture. I fully agree with Bruce about 250F being a good target.

I think you misunderstood. I didn't read that a cold smoke it would produce a more tender result. I just read that it was preferred, but I cannot find the source. Let's just forget that since I may have heard wrong and it's not even an option.

I said that I would prefer to go at the cooler end of the 225-300 range because i believed it would produce a more tender result. Low and slow is generally better, right?

Bill/SFNM wrote:Your biggest challenge will be knowing when it is done. A sharp-point fork should easily pierce the flat all the way through. Don't be tempted to take it out of the smoker until it reaches that point.

I plan on using my Polder probe thermometer for this.

Bill/SFNM wrote:Another tip: always carve against the grain. Make a notch in corner of the flat before smoking, because afterward smoking, it can be hard to find the grain without several experimental slices.

Good tip. Thanks.

I plan on using my Polder probe thermometer for this.

Your polder probe will be of limited value in determing when it is done. It will show you when the plateau is reached at about 160F-170F where it can stay for several hours while the collagen is slowly turning to gelatin. After that point it will gradually begin to rise again, at which point you need to be checking for tenderness. IMHO, there is no other way to know when to pull it off. If you just look at internal temps, you can easily get a a tough (undercooked) or dry (overcooked) product.

Bill/SFNM wrote:

I plan on using my Polder probe thermometer for this.

Your polder probe will be of limited value in determing when it is done. It will show you when the plateau is reached at about 160F-170F where it can stay for several hours while the collagen is slowly turning to gelatin. After that point it will gradually begin to rise again, at which point you need to be checking for tenderness. IMHO, there is no other way to know when to pull it off. If you just look at internal temps, you can easily get a a tough (undercooked) or dry (overcooked) product.

Good to know. Thanks.

Bill is has written a great technique for making pastrami from scratch. I"ve used it several times and its great. Although, I now when I want pastrami I usually get whole briskets from Excel Corned Beef on Lake St.

To paraphrase: When Bill writes, I read.

Bruce wrote:Bill is has written a great technique for making pastrami from scratch. I"ve used it several times and its great. Although, I now when I want pastrami I usually get whole briskets from Excel Corned Beef on Lake St.

To paraphrase: When Bill writes, I read.

Where can I read this technique?

eatchicago wrote:[Where can I read this technique?

I will email you a copy of the article this evening. I wrote it several years ago for the California BBQ Association's newsletter. I still use the same technique, but no longer start with packer cut briskets. I now use corned beef points (not flats!) and soak them for 2 days, changing the water once.

On the topic of smoking, I have been looking around for guidance on smoking shrimp. My guess would be that for shrimp, one would use a "cold smoke" simply because the shrimp "cook" so quickly. I'm also guessing one might use a wood other than hickory (something lighter, like applewood, seems more appropriate).

If anyone has experience smoking shrimp, I'd like to hear about receipes and technique.

Hammond

eatchicago wrote:I am planning on making my own pastrami soon. I will be doing this in a hot smoker (even though I am told it is best to cold-smoke pastrami, but hot will work).

I am having trouble getting a definitive answer on what the ideal temperature should be inside the smoker.

Does anyone have any info or experience with this procedure?

Here's a link to a website that describes how one guy makes his pastrami on a WSM. I've been meaning to try it, but I never get around to it. Hope it helps.

Chitrader
http://www.randyq.addr.com/recipes/pastrami.htm

One thing I've noticed, following the Wiviott 5-step program where I typically have two or more of something in the smoker, like spare ribs or pork shoulder-- the Professor has told me to take one off when it's time to feed the family, but to leave the other of the same thing on for another chunk of time (45 minutes with the ribs, another hour or two with the shoulder). In both cases, although the one I took off first was done and fine, I preferred the one that had another chunk of time to get even more done. So as a general rule with those kinds of meats, if you can avoid taking it off at the first moment that it meets your definition of being done, and can give it a little more time, you'll be glad you did.

In both cases, although the one I took off first was done and fine, I preferred the one that had another chunk of time to get even more done.

Of course, this is the brilliance of this cooking class. You are given tasks which allow you to compare, contrast, learn your preferences and the capabilities range of smoke cooking.

Please note, the Wiviott 5-step is a work in progress smoke cooking tutorial. Some of us are simply guinea pigs, who already had or were willing to buy the WSM. I bought my WSM in the early 1980's. I made stuff, which everyone thought was wonderful just because of the exotic cooking method. I have taken 2-steps, one was straight out of the box success. The second, I didn't realize I didn't follow instructions precisely but a glance at my photo and Gary knew I'd made a critical mistake. In any case, even my mistakes were better than what I had attempted to do forever following Weber's instructions. Oh yeah, once I pass class 2, I then send a token of my esteem to his PayPal account, which I gladly do.

It also explains sudden outbreaks of people buying mojo criollo.

Cathy2 wrote:In any case, even my mistakes were better than what I had attempted to do forever following Weber's instructions

C2,

With BBQ you get to eat your mistakes, sometimes they are just harder to chew.

Cathy2 wrote:Oh yeah, once I pass class 2, I then send a token of my esteem to his PayPal account, which I gladly do.

I still haven't seen your .93c in my MoMoney PayPal account. No third lesson until at least 40% of .93c is deposited. (Ummmm, can someone please tell me what's 40% of .93 )

Enjoy,
Gary

eatchicago wrote:I am planning on making my own pastrami soon. I will be doing this in a hot smoker (even though I am told it is best to cold-smoke pastrami, but hot will work).

EatChicago,

I've never heard of cold smoking pastrami.

eatchicago wrote:I am having trouble getting a definitive answer on what the ideal temperature should be inside the smoker.

I smoke soaked corned beef in the 250 degrees range.


eatchicago wrote:
Does anyone have any info or experience with this procedure?

I've smoked quite a bit of corned beef, which produces, if not exactly, a damn tasty representation of old fashioned pastrami. Just last Saint Paddy's day I cooked 111-lbs of corned beef, about 35-lbs simmered w/potato and cabbage, 75-lbs smoked.

Iron Chef BBQ, Bill/SFNM, also posted in this thread, my method differs from his, though can never go wrong following Bill's advice.

Enjoy,
Gary
--

Smoked Corned Beef
Gary Wiviott

To make a reasonable facsimile of pastrami first soak fresh corned beef in water* for 36-48 hours to rid it of some of the salt. You then coarse grind, in a 5/1 ratio, black pepper/coriander seed, add powdered garlic, onion powder and ground ancho pepper, liberally coat corned beef with the mixture.

Smoke the corned beef as you would a brisket, though due to the corning process it will only take about half or three quarters as long, and you will be quite pleased with the results. I use full packer cut corned beef, point and flat, with the fat cap still attached. If you use a small corned beef flat without a fat cap make sure to smoke it under something fatty, like pork shoulder or baste often.

Some wrap the smoked corned beef in foil while still hot and let it stew in its own juices overnight, allowing it to reabsorb the juice and become tender. I find this step unnecessary using a full packer cut corned beef, plus I prefer my pastrami sliceable.

I have been smoking corned beef for years and it is a favorite. The cracked black pepper/coriander seed/rub/then smoke soaked corned beef recipe came from Garry Howard and Dan Gill, who, I believe, adapted it from a recipe in Rick Thead's Meat Smoking and Curing FAQ.

http://www.velvitoil.com/Curing.HTML

Enjoy,,
Gary

*Do not skip soak step or the finished smoked corned beef will be so salty as to be completely inedible. If you use a commercial, grocery store corned beef, I suggest 48-72 soak.