Pecan Pies

Hi,

In a few weeks, I am attending a picnic where I intend to bring some pecan pies. I knew not to offer to bring Custard based pies, because they may not stand the heat. I offered fruit pies as well as pecan pies.

Tonight I was thumbing through Pecan pie recipes, when eggs in the filling's ingrediant list popped out at me. Can I consider Pecan Pie food safe at Summer's ambient temperatures (hot) or should I arrange refrigeration or maybe forget about pecan pies in summer?

For this picnic the only available refrigeration, if required, is a cooler.

Do I have a reason for concern or am I over cautious?

Regards,

Doesn't it all bake? Doesn't that render it as moot as any other baked good with egg in it?

Hi,

I generally agree with what you are thinking. If it was bread or a perhaps a cake, where only the frosting surviving is a question, then I would not break a sweat.

Custard pies are usually kept chilled. I think their soft, eggy consistency may lend to some generous bacteria breeding grounds, if allowed to hang out too long on a hot day. When I was reading the recipes, it occured to me Pecan pies are a custard variant as the eggs provide the thickening.

What I am fretting about is just a vague suspicion on the pecan pie. Usually I make these in Fall and Winter, so I don't think twice. It is now Summer and my access to refrigeration is a cooler. I want people to remember the pecan pies for what they tasted like and NOT what it did to them!

Oh gosh, some might say I am over-analyzing but it is pre-emptive rather than post-mortem.

Regards,

Cathy2 wrote:Hi,

In a few weeks, I am attending a picnic where I intend to bring some pecan pies. I knew not to offer to bring Custard based pies, because they may not stand the heat. I offered fruit pies as well as pecan pies.

Tonight I was thumbing through Pecan pie recipes, when eggs in the filling's ingrediant list popped out at me. Can I consider Pecan Pie food safe at Summer's ambient temperatures (hot) or should I arrange refrigeration or maybe forget about pecan pies in summer?

For this picnic the only available refrigeration, if required, is a cooler.

Do I have a reason for concern or am I over cautious?

Regards,

During my ongoing world survey of Pecan Pies, I have never seen a refrigerated pecan pie. In fact, I think a refrigerated Pecan Pie would taste awfull. I've seen them out on the counter in diners throughout the South, where temperature and humidity are extremely high, so I don't think you have anything to worry about. Just two weekends ago, I bought one at the outdoor pie stand in the LA Farmers Market where the pie lady mantioned that they can stay out all day long. They had a refrigerated pie case for the cream pies and such, but the pecan pies were not put in there and just sat out in the LA heat inside the unrefrigerated case with the furit pies.

P.S. Can I have a taste?

P.S. Can I have a taste?

Actually, I am using this occasion as an opportunity to try several Pecan Pie recipes for side-by-side comparison. Of course, it may all come down to what you grew up knowing and loving.

Regards,

Cathy2 wrote:

P.S. Can I have a taste?

Actually, I am using this occasion as an opportunity to try several Pecan Pie recipes for side-by-side comparison. Of course, it may all come down to what you grew up knowing and loving.

Regards,

Growing up, I never ate Pecan pie. It was not in my Mom's repetoir. Only when I got older and wiser did I learn the joys of Pecan Pie. Now (along with Key Lime Pie) I never miss an opportunioty to try a piece wherever and whenever I encounter it (hence the world survey of Pecan Pie). Some are memorable some are average, but I've never met one I didn't like.

I would never refrigerate a pecan pie, or any pie with a pastry crust -- they get all soggy and stale.

The huge amount of sugar and/or corn syrup in a pecan pie should make it hygroscopic enough to make simple bacterial infection unlikely. Then again, in our house, pecan pie never lasts past the second day.

Some tips:
1) Use more pecans than they call for. I can't stand having a thin layer of nuts over a thick layer of gooey stuff -- it's a Pecan pie, not a chess pie with nuts on top. A mixture of whole and chopped nuts gives a good texture that fills the whole pie.
2) Toast the pecans briefly before use
3) Blind-bake the crust first
4) Extra vanilla
5) Put a drip pan beneath the pie pan in the oven -- this sucker tends to overflow during cooking (especially after adding too many pecans), and syrup on the bottom of your oven is not your friend.
6) There is no number 6

Care to share the recipes of your favorite iterations - or perhaps, post-event, of that version which for which you get the best feedback? My mom spoiled me for life with her pecan pie and I've really never had a version since that come close. Sadly when she passed so did many of her recipes and I've no idea how to recreate hers. So often the restaurant versions are just gummy, lifeless, triangles of brown glop.

Sadly when she passed so did many of her recipes and I've no idea how to recreate hers. So often the restaurant versions are just gummy, lifeless, triangles of brown glop.

I have had precisely this experience when my Grandmother died. Fortunately, over the years with a lot of experimentation I have mastered and improved her signature recipes.

I will be very happy to let you know the results after this picnic in mid-July.

Regards,

My grandmother's secret pecan pie recipe was the one on the dark Karo syrup bottle That and using extra pecans, and stirring them into the filling, instead of just laying them on top (they will float to the top anyway).

I have to second the idea of toasting the pecans. Makes the whole thing much, much better!

I know its probably heresy on the order of beans in chili, but I still can taste the chocolate pecan pie I had over 15 years ago. Mmmm good.

Octarine,

The chocolate pecan tart in Rose Levy Beranbaum's Pie and Pastry Bible is quite good. I like to use her cream cheese dough for this. She calls for the more delicate Lyle's Golden Syrup rather than corn syrup. Melted chocolate is incorporated just before filling the shell.

Evil Ronnie

Octarine wrote:I know its probably heresy on the order of beans in chili, but I still can taste the chocolate pecan pie I had over 15 years ago. Mmmm good.

No. Not. Blech.

stevez wrote:

Octarine wrote:I know its probably heresy on the order of beans in chili, but I still can taste the chocolate pecan pie I had over 15 years ago. Mmmm good.

No. Not. Blech.

Stevez,

I've never had chocolate pecan pie, but I can pretty much imagine what it tastes like, and it's feeling okay to me. I mean, I like chocolate and pecan pie, so when I put them together, it seems like a good thing. Is it that it's such a SWEET thing? Or is it more that chocolate "violates" a fundamental aspect of the archetypal pecan pie?

David

Perhaps heresy to the purists, but quite good nonetheless. Years ago, I made a chocolate pecan pie with a lattice top, the filling seeping out subtlely to just darken the edges of the crust. I made it several times with no complaints.

Mag,

Okay, got to ask about your "never met a pork product I didn't like" tagline.

You have had chitterlings, right? Diced pig intestine is among the VERY few foods I could go without ever eating again. I understand the cultural roots, and if I had them from birth I might like them, but there is nothing (including texture, taste, or provenance) that appeals to me.

You?

David

You know, I've only had them in the form of andouillettes, not boiled, so I can stand by my statement. I think that I might have to change my tune were I to be confronted by them in the boiled form. I might like them were I to try them fried as deep frying can make anything more palatable. In fact, I was reading Baking with Julia last night in which she includes a recipe for deep fried puff pastry. Hows that for obscene?

David Hammond wrote:Stevez,

I've never had chocolate pecan pie, but I can pretty much imagine what it tastes like, and it's feeling okay to me. I mean, I like chocolate and pecan pie, so when I put them together, it seems like a good thing. Is it that it's such a SWEET thing? Or is it more that chocolate "violates" a fundamental aspect of the archetypal pecan pie?

David

I LOVE chocolate and I LOVE pecan pie , but together they mask each other's essence. I no longer even try such a combo, but each time I ever did, it was usually too sweet; plus I'm not sure if I'm eating chocolate or eating pecan pie, so I don't get the satisfaction of either. At Wishbone across the street from my office, they have the good sense to offer both. YMMV.

This is an excellent recipe from David Rosengarten:

Bourbon, Chocolate, and Walnut Pecan Pie


1 pie (9 1/2 inches), 6 to 8 servings


1/2 the dough from 1 recipe for Superflaky Piecrust

1/2 cup roughly chopped pecans

1/2 cup roughly chopped walnuts

4 large eggs

1/2 cup light corn syrup

1/4 cup honey

1/3 cup granulated sugar

1/3 cup light brown sugar, firmly packed

6 tablespoons (3/4 stick) unsalted butter, melted

3 tablespoons bourbon

1 tablespoon all-purpose flour

1 tablespoon vanilla extract

Pinch of ground nutmeg

Pinch of ground cinnamon

1/2 pound high-quality bittersweet chocolate, broken into 1/2-inch square chunks

1. Preheat oven to 350 degrees.

2. Roll out half of the dough from the Superflaky Piecrust recipe to 1/8-inch thickness, 1 inch larger than the pie plate. Drape the crust over the rolling pin and carefully fit into the pie plate. Trim the edges to 1/2 inch wider than the rim of the pie plate. Fold excess under the rim, on the outside of the plate, and crimp, pinching the dough between your thumb and forefinger at 1-inch intervals.

3. Toast the chopped pecans and chopped walnuts in a small saute pan placed over medium-high heat, stirring often with a wooden spoon, until they are evenly toasted and crisp, about 4 minutes.

4. In a medium bowl whisk together the eggs, light corn syrup, honey, granulated sugar, light brown sugar, melted butter, bourbon, all-purpose flour, vanilla extract, nutmeg, and cinnamon and blend until the mixture is smooth. Stir in the toasted pecans, toasted walnuts, and chunks of chocolate. Pour the mixture into the piecrust.

5. Bake the pie on the center oven rack until it is set, about 40 to 50 minutes. A cake tester inserted into the center of the pie should come out clean (unless you hit a chocolatey spot). Serve slightly warm or at room temperature.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Super-Flaky Pie Crust
makes one 9 1/2" double-crusted pie

1 1/2 cups all-purpose flour
1/2 cup cake flour
1/4 teaspoon salt
8 tablespoons unsalted butter, cut into 1/2 inch squares
3 tablespoons cold shortening
1/3 cup ice water mixed with 1 tablespoon distilled white vinegar (have an extra 1 or 2 tablespoons ice water in reserve, you may need a bit more)

1. In a medium bowl, combine flours, salt and butter. Place in the freezer until butter is hard, about 5 minutes. Dump mixture onto the counter and roll over quickly with a rolling pin, scraping off whatever adheres to the pin and repeat 2 or 3 times until the butter forms flat flakes, Scrape mixture back into bowl and add shortening in chick-pea size lumps. Freeze another 5 minutes.

2. Dump on the counter and roll and scrape 2 more times to incorporate shortening. Return to bowl, freeze 5 minutes more. Add water/vinegar mixture to bowl; toss with a fork. Press a few tablespoons of the mixture in your hand. If it clumps, you are OK, if it crumbles add water a teaspoon at a time until mixture clumps. Dump onto the counter and bring together with your hands. Knead only once or twice, just to form a mass that sticks together. Divided into 2 flat rounds, one just slightly larger than the other. Wrap each piece in plastic wrap and refrigerate at least 2 hours before rolling.

Hi,

This is only an intermediate update:

This weekend I was visiting friends, one who prides himself in pecan pie sensitivity. I made two variations of pecan pie, where the only difference was 1/4 cup of brown sugar. I took half-pieces to people for side-by-side comparisons. Most favored the less sweet version and a few the sweeter version, which is known to be favored by Southerners. The person who especially prides himself in pecan pie knowledge thought the sweeter version had a pronounced molasses taste, which he did not find present in the less sweet pie. He suggested making the next Pecan Pie with only 1/4 cup increase over the less sweet version to tweak this pie to perfection in his opinion. All this was valuable feedback, which could not be achieved if I made one variant alone.

I met my friend this weekend who is noted for this long research into the origins of Pecan Pie. For the upcoming Oxford Compendium of American Foods, which several friends are editing, he has written an essay on Pecan Pies. Last weekend I prepared both variants of his personal recipe, which he has allowed me to post. All he asks is feedback from those who use it:

Pecan Pie. Edgar Rose

9 inch pie crust, fully prebaked to light golden brown approximately 12 minutes at 450 degree Fahrenheit. (See note 2)

4 tablespoons unsalted butter
4 extra large eggs
1 pinch salt
1 teaspoon vanilla extract
1 teaspoon dark rum (e.g. Myers)
11.5 ounces (1-1/2 cups) brown sugar
5 ounces (1-1/4 cups) chopped pecans

Whipping cream, optional

Procedure

1. Preheat oven to 350 Fahrenheit.
2. Melt butter.
3. Beat eggs in a mixing bowl with a fork until uniform in color.
4. Add salt, vanilla extract, rum - mix.
5. Add sugar gradually, mix thoroughly.
6. Add melted butter and mix.
7. Toast chopped nuts in a dry frying pan for 5 minutes. Spread nuts over the bottom of the prebaked crust, pour filling over the nuts into crust.
8. Bake in preheated 350 F oven 20 minutes. Reduce heat to 250 F and bake until center of filling has just barely stopped jiggling when shaking the pie pan (25-35 mins. at 250 F, or about 10 minutes after the top pecan crust has started rising).
9. Serve at room temperature with slightly sweetened, slightly vanilla flavored whipped cream.
NOTE 1: For Southern tastes. increase the amount of sugar to 2 cups (1 lb package), which also increases the cooking time.
NOTE 2: Cathy2�s recipe for 1 pie crust uses:

Mix together in a medium bowl:

1 cup flour
1/2 teaspoon salt

Cut in:

1/3 cup Crisco (plain or butter flavored)

Cutting in can be accomplished several ways: I used a wire pastry cutter and just keep cutting away until the mixture is like coarse meal. You can accomplish the same task using two knives and cutting scissor-style until you reach the same consistency; though it takes longer than the pastry cutter. Or make the dough in a food processor using the steel blade and pulse-process until coarse meal stage.

Add up to 2-1/2 tablespoons ice water. I my humble opinion, the classic mistake is people try to use too little chilled water. If the crust is too dry, it will fall apart as you try to roll it out. The only good comparison I can think of is Play Dough, if it feels like that texture then you are far along to having a good crust.

You can chill, if you want, but I just roll it out immediately between two pieces of wax paper. I will lightly coat one piece of wax paper very lightly with flour, then place the other piece on top to rub them together.

I will shape the dough with my hands into a disk, lightly coat with flour, then place it between the wax paper. When I roll it out, I stroke the dough in a different direction each time.

To bake a pie crust blind (without filling): you prick the sides and bottom with a fork, then place a large pie of foil inside and fill it with beans or coins to weight the pie crust. At 10 minutes, I remove the pie crust from the oven, I lift up the foil and return the crust for an additional 2 minutes or so to complete baking.

Just remember, if you use this recipe to please provide some feedback!

For whatever it's worth, here's my two cents. My dad was raised in Georgia in a house with a huge pecan tree in the backyard, so I was spoiled at young age by outstanding pecan pie and Southern food in general. I learned from my Mom and grandmother than the pie is all about the pecans (toast them for sure). Putting bourbon or chocolate or anything else in is sacrilege. The recipe I use to make pecan pie filling calls for nothing more than pecans, equal amounts sugar and dark corn syrup, melted butter, eggs, and a bit of vanilla. Thank goodness I still get shipments of fresh pecans from my uncle down there.

Kwe730 wrote:For whatever it's worth, here's my two cents. My dad was raised in Georgia in a house with a huge pecan tree in the backyard, so I was spoiled at young age by outstanding pecan pie and Southern food in general. I learned from my Mom and grandmother than the pie is all about the pecans (toast them for sure). Putting bourbon or chocolate or anything else in is sacrilege. The recipe I use to make pecan pie filling calls for nothing more than pecans, equal amounts sugar and dark corn syrup, melted butter, eggs, and a bit of vanilla. Thank goodness I still get shipments of fresh pecans from my uncle down there.

Your analysis of Pecan Pie (and the recepie) sounds spot on to me! Especially the part about leaving out adulterants like booze or chocolate (despie the fact that adding a little bourbon is a tradition in lot's of places).

Hi Kwe730!

I learned from my Mom and grandmother than the pie is all about the pecans (toast them for sure). Putting bourbon or chocolate or anything else in is sacrilege.

As I believe SteveZ can attest, 1 teaspoon of rum (actually I used Bourbon, because I could not justify spending $15+ on a bottle of Rum, when I needed 1 teaspoon) was hardly present as a flavor. It was there like the vanilla to highlight the flavors. Like adding salt to a sweet, it makes the sweet sweeter.

The recipe I use to make pecan pie filling calls for nothing more than pecans, equal amounts sugar and dark corn syrup, melted butter, eggs, and a bit of vanilla.

Do you mind sharing your recipe more specifically? Do you chop or keep your pecans whole? Pecan pies offered in this area almost always have whole pecans. I have this growing idea there is a preference to chopped nuts over whole in the south ... this is a hunch without any specificity.

&&&

On Sunday, I was gifted a pecan pie by Ourpalwill which he picked up at:

Sweet Lil' Me Me's Bakery
11836 South Western Avenue
Chicago, IL 60643
Tel: 773/233-7230

Sunday, I brought a sample to SteveZ, since he provided the most feedback on the recipe I cited above last weekend. Me Me's pie seemed to be a corn syrup based pie, with chopped pecans, which were effectively glazed pecans. Among those who tasted this particular pie, someone thought there were melted caramels in it. I don't know, though for bakery pie this was very, very good. The crust was rolled very thin and with very spartan, trim edges. I felt this was a bakery-made crust rather than industrial. It was rolled out too thin for industrial which are usually rather heavy and thick.

Cathy2 wrote:On Sunday, I was gifted a pecan pie by Ourpalwill which he picked up at:

Sweet Lil' Me Me's Bakery
11836 South Western Avenue
Chicago, IL 60643
Tel: 773/233-7230

Sunday, I brought a sample to SteveZ, since he provided the most feedback on the recipe I cited above last weekend. Me Me's pie seemed to be a corn syrup based pie, with chopped pecans, which were effectively glazed pecans. Among those who tasted this particular pie, someone thought there were melted caramels in it. I don't know, though for bakery pie this was very, very good. The crust was rolled very thin and with very spartan, trim edges. I felt this was a bakery-made crust rather than industrial. It was rolled out too thin for industrial which are usually rather heavy and thick.

This bakery occasionally sells at local farmer's markets and I've always looked forward to their stuff. I've never felt comfortable recommending them based on the limited samples I've had, especially since they were all bought late at the outside markets rather than at their own location, but I wouldn't hesitate to try any of their work.

Hi,

I was looking for this last night, this is original review from Yourpalwill from February 9th:

Ok, we've all had one of those days. You know the kind that I mean. one where you're so busy that you don't have time to eat despite the fact that you're around some great restaurants.

I had one of those days about two and a half weeks ago, where I found myself at around 3:30 in the afternoon pulling into the Walgreens parking lot at the corner of State and 75th. My mission? A snickers bar and a diet coke to tide me over until the end of the day.

As I'm standing three deep in line, contemplating eating the Snickers and handing the cashier an empty wrapper to scan, something catches my chowish eye: Neatly wrapped squares of thick sheet cake covered with a variety of frostings: caramel, chocolate, strawberry and lemon coconut. This doesn't look like commercial bakery fare. It looks homemade with its sweet icing dripping down the side of the cake squares and forming a decorative almost artistic pattern against the cellophane.

Executive decision time has arrived. I drop the Snickers back into its bin and settle upon one of these divine hunks o cake that have captured ny attention at the checkout.

The cake is simple. A light airy, yellow cake reminiscient of the type of cake that someone's grandmother (though certainly not mine) took great care in baking for her family generations ago. The caramel icing was simply marvelous the way good caramel should be.

Luckily for me, the cake is labeld "AM's Lil Sweet Me Me' Bakery, 11836 S. Western Ave. I think that this simple little bakery and its simple but delicious cakes deserve further attention. So, two Saturdays in a row, I stop in to sample its wares.

The outcome? Excellent pies-I sampled pecan, custard, apple. Beautiful old fashioned cobblers- I sampled peach. And those light airy cakes described herein. Everything is fresh baked in house. No commercial cake mixes are used. It's a small mom and pop place with only two little bakery cases and the owner's kids running around inside.

If you're looking for sophisticated patisserie, this is not your place. If you're looking for quality scratch made old fashioned cakes, Lil Sweet Me Me's offers great possibilities.

AM's Lil Sweet Me Me's Bakery
11836 S. Western Ave.

I also sampled recently their pound cake, which was lightly lemony, dense and felt like velvet on your tongue.

Cathy,

Here's the ingredient list for the filling that I use


3 eggs

1 cup sugar

1/2 teaspoon salt

1/3 cup melted butter

1 cup dark corn syrup

1 cup pecan halves

1 teaspoon vanilla

Cathy2 wrote:Hi Kwe730!

Sunday, I brought a sample to SteveZ, since he provided the most feedback on the recipe I cited above last weekend. Me Me's pie seemed to be a corn syrup based pie, with chopped pecans, which were effectively glazed pecans. Among those who tasted this particular pie, someone thought there were melted caramels in it. I don't know, though for bakery pie this was very, very good. The crust was rolled very thin and with very spartan, trim edges. I felt this was a bakery-made crust rather than industrial. It was rolled out too thin for industrial which are usually rather heavy and thick.

The SLM pecan pie was some of the best I've had in a while. I think the addition of a little bit of Bourbon would take the edge off the sweetness and make it pecan pie perfection...although a homemade crust wouldn't be a bad thing, either.

KWE730!

I see you use whole pecans. Did you pre-bake your crust? What temperature and time for the pie?

If you look at the recipe from Mr. Rose, there was a medium oven temperature initially, then a much lower oven temperature for the remainder of the time.

Karo Syrup Pecan Pie has a 350 degree Fahrenheit for 50-55 minutes.